LOL so if anyone still had doubts about AN-X surfacing in the new Montage, I guess this can be considered as a smoking gun...

The Yamaha Music Production Guide issue is a great addition to the information we have that increases the likelihood that the AN-X was added to the new Montage M, thanks for sharing @Dragos

The Fantom sales after receiving numerous virtual modeling based engines/updates in the somewhat recent past is also fuel for lighting the fire under Yamaha to add the #1 most requested and most upvoted idea by a huge margin, so if Yamaha don't add it, their sales will likely just be mediocre at best with the new Montage M. So there's great incentive for Yamaha that increases the likelihood of the addition of the AN-X.

Also, if any of the leaked images are somewhat correct as to what the final new product will look like, I think the new additional screen on the top left, may be a bit of a clue & possibly increases the likelihood of the AN-X being added, as I suspect in order to be able to program & tweak AN-X PARTs, they needed something that made it more intuitive and allowed for better visuals than the center screen structure would do..!? 😉

[quotePost id=123081]The Yamaha Music Production Guide issue is a great addition to the information we have that increases the likelihood that the AN-X was added to the new Montage M, thanks for sharing[/quotePost]
I don't have any doubts that ANX will be there, so my interest is now driven by what else will be there.
But TBH, I don't have that much of a problem to just wait.

Yeah, based on what Saul said on the Yamaha Musicians forum, it sounds like there is more than just an AN-X engine being added to the new Montage M...

I wonder if they are also implementing AWM3, FM-X2, Wavetable engine, as well as possibly double the polyphony, triple the User memory, MPE & MIDI 2.0 ..!? Nothing would surprise me at this point, but I do feel like whatever the final product has, Yamaha will have a sh!t3 load of bragging rights in upcoming online reviews and demos...

Tis fun to speculate in the mean time though!
Unfortunately for me, I asked my bank account about trading up, and it just laughed at me & said I should wait another 30 years like I did with my DX7II synth... :p

[quotePost id=123082][quotePost id=123081]The Yamaha Music Production Guide issue is a great addition to the information we have that increases the likelihood that the AN-X was added to the new Montage M, thanks for sharing[/quotePost]
I don't have any doubts that ANX will be there, so my interest is now driven by what else will be there.
But TBH, I don't have that much of a problem to just wait. [/quotePost]

Thanks for posting the link to the new Production Guide. Glad I kept my AN200!

I agree. Montage M needs to differentiate itself from Stage CP, Stage YC and MODX+. It'll be interesting to see how Yamaha steers through these icebergs. 🙂 AN-X is a logical differentiator -- gotta be a no-brainer. There's money to be made on AN-X mania. [Of course, how many of those people on Gearspace will actually buy a Montage M?]

I still have my doubts about ever seeing AN-X in MODX+ as an update -- needs heavy-weight DSP. Anybody take their MODX+ apart yet? 😀 VRM needs heavy-weight DSP, too.

Same concerns about differentiation apply to the Stage YC organ engine or piano VRM. Yamaha need to drizzle different flavors of special sauce on each of the different product lines in order to give customers clear choice. It'll be interesting to see how this settles out. NAMM 2024 (January 25 to 28).

Have fun -- pj

[quotePost id=123084]
I agree. Montage M needs to differentiate itself from Stage CP, Stage YC and MODX+. It'll be interesting to see how Yamaha steers through these icebergs. 🙂 AN-X is a logical differentiator -- gotta be a no-brainer. There's money to be made on AN-X mania. [Of course, how many of those people on Gearspace will actually buy a Montage M?]

I still have my doubts about ever seeing AN-X in MODX+ as an update -- needs heavy-weight DSP. Anybody take their MODX+ apart yet? 😀 VRM needs heavy-weight DSP, too.

Same concerns about differentiation apply to the Stage YC organ engine or piano VRM. Yamaha need to drizzle different flavors of special sauce on each of the different product lines in order to give customers clear choice. It'll be interesting to see how this settles out. NAMM 2024 (January 25 to 28).
[/quotePost]
Yeah Paul I think at this point most people will be surprised (and not in a good way) if the AN-X doesn't show up on the new Montage M. But I don't think there's too much to worry about after Saul on the yamahamusicians.com forum was told some inside information in confidence and said that "this release is a whole lot more than we all envisaged" and that it raised his interest level, continuing with it's "something none of you have thought of". That speaks volumes...

I think it would be great if they include the AN-X in the MODX+ even if it only adds 64 note polyphony, or shared polyphony with FM-X perhaps..!? I think they need a boost for the MODX+ more than just the increase in FM-X polyphony and User memory that it received from the MODX. But maybe they are waiting for the new Montage M to be out for X number of months first before enhancing the MODX+..!? For all we know, they may have added 2 new SWP90's in the MODX+ on the same circuit board!?

I think of the YC as the more organ based stage keyboard that can do mostly everything, and a direct competitor to the Nord Stage and the Hammond SK-1. Yamaha kinda missed the boat by releasing the YC without the right rotary sound. Once they finally released update 1.2 that contained the proper rotary sound that people wanted, it was too late because all the head to head reviews were already done with the Nord and Hammond, and they didn't redo any of the major reviews. So anyone checking out the YC on YouTube, are seeing mostly the older comparative reviews. I think they need to release a YC-2 or YC+ that stands against the Nord Stage 4 even closer. So maybe NAMM 2024 will have new product releases of enhanced YC and CP keyboards, with clear distinction of pushing the organs & additional layering capacity on the YC, and more variety of different pianos on the CP..!? But I also think they need to add either a 9' Steinway or a Fazioli to the YC as well, so that comparisons to the Nord pianos can be more apples to apples than when you hear a Steinway on the Nord against a CFX on the YC, which is not a great comparison.
Whatever they do with the YC & CP replacements, I think they need to do it right via a new replacement product line, out of the gate, and not via later updates after all the comparison reviews are completed! 😉

Saul said something far more profound based on insider information. He said nothing that has been speculated about thus far or on any forum that the is aware of is correct. We've speculated on everything. That doesn't mean also what has been speculated won't also be included but what I've been calling the "Unexpected" thing has yet to be discovered or even mentioned apparently. So what is it? What university research or Yamaha creation is on Montage "M" that hasn't ever been done before?

Saul said "not in this thread, and I am pretty sure not in any other", which he could just be referring to only threads within that Montage forum or maybe just the YamahaMusicians forum threads..!?

Perhaps utilizing "AI" to help program sounds on the AN-X is what Yamaha have added..!?
I've not heard any threads (at least on this forum or the YamahaMusicians forums) discuss AI with regard to the new Montage replacement, or any synth come to think of it...maybe others have on this forum at some point..!?

We know Google, Microsoft, Amazon and others are pushing forward with AI. Perhaps Yamaha have been too, or they are partnering with either Google, Microsoft or Amazon to have customers utilize AI..!?

[quotePost id=123096]But I don't think there's too much to worry about after Saul on the yamahamusicians.com forum was told some inside information in confidence and said that "this release is a whole lot more than we all envisaged" and that it raised his interest level, continuing with it's "something none of you have thought of". That speaks volumes...[/quotePost]
Well, most if not all of what people speculated was "add my favourite engine (or all engines ever made by Yamaha)" and " fix everything I don't like" and "add my fav feature from the competition". Everyone is speaking around information and stuff that's already out there.

But this is not where "innovation" is.

Montage, IMO, had two truly innovative features and those had nothing to do with the engines.
One was the focus on modulation/control and the other (the most important IMO) was integration with the DAW: being used as an audio interface and being integrated just like a VST into the DAW via Montage Connect, which made it even unnecessary to save the patches in the board. One can work with the Montage/MODX in a DAW almost as seamless as with a soft synth.

So now everybody basically speculates on what's obvious, which is engines and very specific features, but I do expect some real innovations there, of the "nobody thought of that" kind. Yamaha does this kind of stuff.

I was checking the trademark for the FGDP devices few months ago, trying to figure out what Yamaha was about to launch. It was clear they are drumming pads, so was that some controller in the vein of the low end Akai controllers? Don't think so. Maybe even some beatmaking system like the MPC? Again, didn't seem likely.
And when the FGDP showed up, it was indeed a finger drumming instrument, but with innovations that I couldn't "predict" cause they weren't something I seen before. When reading the trademark, all my thinking was revolving around stuff that was already on the market, yet these things approach the whole finger drumming idea from a completely different direction.

Remember how just few weeks ago everybody was speculating that the new board will be called XS, +, XF, ES... everything that was already used.
Was there a single person in any forum to suspect it will be called... M? (genius trolling by Yamaha, btw 😀 )

[quotePost id=123096] I think they need a boost for the MODX+ more than just the increase in FM-X polyphony and User memory that it received from the MODX. [/quotePost]
After Montage was launched in early 2016, there were 2.5 years were the second tier was represented by the MOXF, and it was fine. The MODX+ is a monster of functionality already.

The Yamaha trend is often 1) Doubling up the system once or twice on consecutive models 2) Dumbing down the system such as MODX and plus. 3) Evolution like CP to YC to CK or some mixture of all of these 3.

Occasionally it a new series like Montage or Genos. Blake mentioned next gen Montage so something completely different isn't really a next generation Montage. Is it a word game? I paraphrase a lot so I understand that we can all go read exactly what was written but I try to capture the general idea or thought. A thread versus a forum to me can be the same thing but yes he could mean specifically one thread and leave the door open to infinite threads on other forums. I thought of a broader meaning of what he was suggesting.

Still this new concept is common to common technology or it wouldn't be a Montage. Synthesizers which are in extremely low demand to the general public don't create new technology, they adopt it once the technology (trickle down) becomes affordable and practical to implement. Your smart phone or computer would be a far more likely & lucrative of an investment platform over a synthesizer to introduce something fantastic and never before realized.

I suppose FM once found to be not effective in warfare found it's usefulness in the DX7. Could this be another warfare experiment purchased by Yamaha? I suppose anything is possible. We do not know whether it's a function or feature or and engine (apparently not just that) but it's got to be affordable and fit within the workstation budget which doesn't leave much room for fantastic stuff if the price is to remain affordable. Unless "next generation Montage" is a poor or inaccurate choice of words. Next generation synthesizer or workstation would have been more accurate if it's fundamentally different.

One additional consideration is that Yamaha's trend has been to embellish and exaggerate considerably so if the source of the insider info. is connected to Yamaha who knows what they said. I completely understand enthusiasm for reps and employees of Yamaha but we typically find the YouTube reviewer whom we trust for a fair and balanced representation of the facts.

There are not too many days before the features can be evaluated in manuals and early demos. A short two months from now and all will be in the rear view mirror.

A short two months from now and all will be in the rear view mirror.

Or the rear view mirror might have been replaced by one or more rear-facing cameras.

One speculated "M" is for module. I have been suggesting that forever or Desktop more specifically.

[quotePost id=123101][quotePost id=123096]But I don't think there's too much to worry about after Saul on the yamahamusicians.com forum was told some inside information in confidence and said that "this release is a whole lot more than we all envisaged" and that it raised his interest level, continuing with it's "something none of you have thought of". That speaks volumes...[/quotePost]
Well, most if not all of what people speculated was "add my favourite engine (or all engines ever made by Yamaha)" and " fix everything I don't like" and "add my fav feature from the competition". Everyone is speaking around information and stuff that's already out there.

But this is not where "innovation" is.
[/quotePost]

Amen to that. Your comment fits what our development group would see from customers -- mostly things they already knew about, small extensions or fixes. That's where a company needs to lead. The trick is to lead without getting too far ahead of your customers. Get out too far ahead and they are baffled. It's a tough sport finding the balance point. 😮 😉

Anyway, just wanted to mention Yamaha's recent patent covering keyboard control of articulations and such. Might be their take on Roli Rise-like control. What caught my eye, at first, is the list of inventors -- some of Yamaha's most prolific including the chap who managed the Montage gen 1 development. Of course, patented tech doesn't necessarily get into product...

Have a good weekend -- pj

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-multi-touch-patents/