Is there any plan to release an "offline" version of the "FM Converter" tool for Montage users as well?

Since it is not the place here to discuss future plans - positive or negative - you will simply have to wait and see. I don't know and probably could not reveal the plans if I did.

I do not understand your reluctance to use the Browser method, we feel it is a great solution. It's free, we don't have to charge you for a program, we don't have to build a fancy graphic interface, or worry about distribution and/or packaging... Sorry about your hatred for cloud based anything... Just in case it comes up at a planning meeting - what would you be willing to pay for just a UTILITY to convert your old DX7 sounds? Let us know (it could factor into this discussion).

You might be able to find a DX7 on eBay, then you can load the sounds directly to it without going on line. It is an option for those stuck in the 20th century. 🙂

... or if they wanted glissando support and pitch bend scaling.

The approach I've taken is to map out a few DX7 sounds from articles to Montage. Along the way, I have spreadsheet which maps DX7 algorithms to Montage and tells me what the new operator number is (from (DX7) -> to (Montage)). Other notes have the menu items on Montage that map to the verbiage used in the magazine I was lifting PD (public domain) sounds from.

With this documentation, it's pretty easy for me to follow and doesn't take long to manually enter. Although I can see the utility of a utility (for batch work = more than 1 "patch" to performance).

Also, one use for the online tool is to take a scratch DX7 patch (one you have absolutely no concerns about Yamaha or anyone else "stealing" through their cloud service) and seeing where parameters landed. You'd need to have a mapping of the patch in DX7-speak - but since everything is expressed in numbers - you can "hunt" for matching numbers and help clear up any "holes" in your mapping understanding in order to translate manually.

There's an FM-X thread where I uploaded a spreadsheet of the Alg. mapping.

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/on-the-fmx-side-of-things#reply-13168

Since this is a multi-page thread - the link isn't likely to bring you directly to the post. You'll need to press "Latest" - just above the first response to reorder the thread as latest post first. Then 3 or so posts down you'll see the spreadsheet.

@Bad Mister:
Thanks a lot for your answer. Related to your last statement I guess there might be a misunderstanding:

You might be able to find a DX7 on eBay, then you can load the sounds directly to it without going on line. It is an option for those stuck in the 20th century. 🙂

I'm not only a musician, I'm also a trained IT engineer, so for sure I'm not stuck in the 20th century. Ironically that's exactly the reason why I'm very aware of any potential risks that go along with the use of cloud-based systems and services. Furthermore I still have my own DX7II/FD and TX802 units I already mentioned in my initial posting above, so I'm able to hook those up anytime without buying another DX7 on eBay. To be honest, I don't know how to interpret your last advice. Do you eventually mean that hooking up an old legacy DX7 to the "Web MIDI" FM conversion interface would *NOT* require any online connection? I don't think so as that would be a contradiction.

As explained before I'm just looking for a simple offline method which would enable me to convert my personal FM patch collection (or particular parts of it) in order to be "re-used" on a new Montage synthesizer (which I'd be willing to buy in such a case) with all its new features on top of it. Even if "Web MIDI" seems to be a possible option for converting old FM patches to the Montage format while having legacy gear connected, Yamaha states in their related description that devices with an installed E! Grey Matter board will not be supported by the current tool. Unfortunately that applies in my case. The only feasable way for me would be to have a universal offline utility available - similar to the "Drag and Drop" approach (currently being available online exclusively) - but with the difference that it should also be able to "batch-convert" existing SysEx bulk dump lists without the need to perform manual patch conversion - one after another - and without having to connect real legacy hardware anymore in addition. At least that's the way how an efficient tool would have to work from my personal perspective.

Just in case it comes up at a planning meeting - what would you be willing to pay for just a UTILITY to convert your old DX7 sounds? Let us know (it could factor into this discussion).

I'd pay up to 30 dollars for such a tool, provided it really supports the mentioned direct batch-conversion, even if it doesn't provide any fancy GUI. On the other hand I think that such a basic feature should be natural part of any Montage bundle. A related simple menu could be easily integrated into Montage-specific editor/management software, e.g. as part of an "import" functionality or whatsoever. After all Yamaha announced Montage compatibiility with several FM-based legacy gear right from the start. So, if the Montage synthesizer cannot receive and map such compatible SysEx dumps directly, at least the related editor/management software bundled with the gear should be able to handle such tasks natively. Just my 2 cents on how to bring such a "free goodie" to the Montage community. Would you think that I'm asking for too much? 🙂

@Jason:
Thanks a lot for your links related to more information on how to map data between the different synth formats. Maybe I will have a closer look. However, before investigating any deeper (without owning any Montage synth yet), my first thought was to ask Yamaha personally if such a sophisticated "stand-alone" or "integrated" conversion utility is on their road map. After all I wouldn't have the time (and the intention) to develop my own tool anyway. 🙂

Bad Mister, after getting no feedback from you for quite a while, I just wanted to inquire if there was a chance in the meantime to discuss that "offline conversion tool" topic in your regular planning meetings as you suggested. As I already pointed out, I'd be even willing to pay for such a "standalone" utility/tool in case it would be offered by Yamaha, providing the described "batch" functionalities which would add much value to all loyal Yamaha DX7IIFD/TX802/... owners like me who just wanted to preserve their previously created work by just transfering existing patches/banks to a new machine on a large scale.

As you may know, Yamaha's campaign period here in Europe - qualifying for receiving the Bösendorfer 290 library as a free add-on - will be ending soon, and I'd really like to know where I am if it comes to making final decisions on a potential Montage purchase. As already mentioned, it makes much difference to me if all the propagated Yamaha FM formats are finally supported to be conveniently converted by users as explained, or if only the cloud-based web interface will remain the only option that will ever be offered by Yamaha.

Martin,

I believe there is some information that you can still get with the FM converter online tool. Namely the user guide that delineates which parameters are converted and which ones are not. Basically the limitations of a converter tool. Some of these limitations are due to missing features of montage and so a DX7 feature does not have a place in montage. For example glissando and scaled pitch Bend. Looking at the full list will give some insight on what can and cannot be done with the offline converter just like the online converter. So maybe take a look at that and see if you're okay with their limitations. Of course I can't answer anything about the offline tool, this is where our Yamaha has to chime in.

Still no one from Yamaha willing to chime in?

I asked, there are no plans for a non-Web based FM Converter program.

Bad Mister, thanks for your investigation. I take very good note of the outcome, but let me express my own personal deepest regret on such a decision I fail to comprehend.

Apart from a few improvements which would have to be implemented, the main code for FM conversion has already been developed by Yamaha, so nothing easier than to port such a code into an application which already exists for the Montage synth. From my perspective, Yamaha could have achieved maximum benefit by bringing all loyal long-time customers on board as well who have already owned one or more of the mentioned legacy Yamaha synths/sound modules dealing with FM synthesis. There would have been the chance to enable all those synth owners to load/import/convert their compiled work into the new Montage format in a large scale in order to use previous creations as a new starting point. Obviously that target group I'm talking about has been forgotten or ignored consciously.

I apologize for my open criticism, but what I can identify in Yamaha's marketing strategy is an issue that seems to be running like a continuous thread through all current promotions. Every time any kind of compatibility is announced prior to a new synth release, the related development finally turns out to be half-baked only. To name an example, the supposed compatibility with the *full* MOXF voice parameter set was undermined from that point in time at which Motif XF OS V1.50 was introduced. A misfortune for all MOXF owners who already bought their synth before it was very clear that Yamaha will never eliminate this discrepancy to make all propagated compatibility statements apply again.

The Montage synthesizer could face a similar fate in case one of its two important pillars in its design - the FM-X engine - will also not get that special care it should deserve, especially in terms of the promoted FM compatibility. After all, articles were written about that FM synth format support long before Montage was even released. Maybe Montage's final inability to support all those features like glissando or scaled PB was the main driver for stopping any further development with the consequence not to release any proper FM load/import/convert functionality. Of course, it's much "safer" to offer just a rudimentary web-based online solution which reaches its limits soon but which can be removed quickly from the website again. With all due respect, customers demand a little bit more sustainability, flexibility and security before investing in a new gear of such a price category.

All in all, the essential "last mile" needs to be taken by Yamaha as well, otherwise high customer expectations will be raised which turn out to be unrealizable or impractical for Yamaha. I'm not sure why this seems to be always the problem in the end.

Bad Mister wrote:

I do not understand your reluctance to use the Browser method.

That's easy to understand. When we buy a hardware synth we don't want it to depend on an online web application which can disappear without notice.

In my opinion the conversion should take place in the Montage. The Montage should be able to receive DX7 sysex files like the FS1R could.

Martin,

Your concerned are greatly justified. And I had the exact same concerns. Like you, I've also worked in IT for years, and generally am not too trusting of cloud services
which for a lot of companies is just a way to force people into upgrades they often don't need, and sometimes good software is no longer available.

I still run some software instruments that are more than 15 years old, and I still use some synthesizers from the 80s on a regular basis. Your concern about the DX7
converter is one to be concerned about.

It should at least be offered that their is a way to do it with an offline tool or a website that we know is not going to be taken down.

Another Martin here,

I have a lot of experience with offline conversion of Yamaha DX7 (and related) patches. Resulting in my free conversion tool DXconvert/TXconvert. dxconvert.martintarenskeen.nl

My software is not able to convert DX7 patches to Montage or MODX, but can be helpful in another way.
DXconvert is able to convert almost any exotic fileformat that has been used in the 20th century to store DX7 patches - including file formats that Yamaha's online converter doesn't recognize - to a standard 32-patches-per-bank-dx7-sysex-file. After this conversion Yamaha's online converter should be able to read the data without problems.

DXconvert is even able to convert patches from non-compatible 4-operator FM synths like DX21, DX11, TX81Z, V50 etc. And even patches from the Korg DS8 and 707 FM synths can be converted to DX7 sysex.

In theory it should be possible to convert two 4-operator patches from a TX81Z to one layered 8-operator patch for a Montage. But my software does not support that. Would be a nice feature to add to Yamaha's online converter?

And, maybe, in the future I will pick up the challenge to create an offline DX-to-Montage and DX-to-MODX conversion tool. I don't promise anything. The Montage is a complex machine, I don't own one (yet), and I don't have much time to dive in such a project. But the subject fascinates me.