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cannot change type of APR in APR select on pre-set

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 dave
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

so this is puzzling me, so select a pre-set, go to quick edit, APR/MS, i cannot switch on APR nor select type 1 to 8 or any of the other functions
in that menu tab, but i can turn on APR from the dedicates button left hand side of keyboard, and APR works but on APR 1
i can adjust all other parameters in quick edit tabs, filter ,amplitude ,etc
i went to performance tried there and again could not adjust the APR settings
some guidance please

 
Posted : 11/11/2023 12:00 am
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

so select a pre-set

What preset are you using?

 
Posted : 11/11/2023 2:02 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 0
 

There are several ways to access as many as eight Arpeggio Phrases assigned to any Part.
You can have as many as eight Parts under your control simultaneously and each can have its own Arpeggiator (at maximum).
However, any Part, 1-16, can be assigned an Arpeggiator.

The QUICK EDIT area will allow access to the editing features that let you quickly adjust the assigned Phrase in real-time.

If you select [QUICK EDIT] -> “Selected Part” -> then press “Arp/MS” in the SubDisplay
You are given seven parameters if “Common” or a “Part” is selected.
_Master Arp On/Off
_Arp Select 1-8 (but only if the Arp Phrase has been assigned to the Arp Select location)
If you cannot select a different Phrase by changing the “Arp Select” Knob to “2”, it is because no Arpeggio Phrase is assigned to Arp Select 2.
_Swing
_Unit Multiply
_Gate Time
_Velocity Rate
_Octave Range

If you press the [PAGE JUMP] button you will open the “ARP/MS” -> “Arp Common” screen on the MainDisplay.
Here you can see the eight Arp Select locations

Under the “Arp Common” in column 2, tap “Arp Overview”
This is where Arpeggios can be assigned to the current Arp Select location
Tap the line to see the pop-in menu to launch “Category Search”
Arp Category Search is purple.

Set your instrument Category (Main and Sub) or set to “Classic” Arp for your typical up, down up/down, down/up, etc., etc.
Set your “Attributes” as to Note, Chord, Intro, Main, Fill-in, Ending, AsFunction, Accent, SFX, Mega, length, Time Signature…

This COMMON Arp screen area shows the Arp assigned to the various Parts for Arp Select 1, for example.
If you would rather see the eight Arp Phrases assigned to any particular Part, you would naturally select the PART.
In this area you are looking at just the Arp data concerning this individual Part.

Alternate Navigation
From your Performance, press the [NAVIGATION] button
On the very top line, after the word “Navigation”, the MONTAGE M will identify where you are currently… it may say “Common”, it may say “Part 1 / Common” or something similar.

If “Common” and you tap the “Arp” icon you will be taken to the area where you can see the Arp Overview for the Performance
If “Part # / Common” and you tap the “Arp” icon you will be taken to the area where you can see and select Arp Phrases for this Part.

Recalling Assigned Arp Phrases while Performing
From the HOME screen tap “Scene” in column 1
Here you can assign Arp Select numbers to Scenes — yes you could assign 8 different Phrases one to each Scene button or you can assign them how ever suits your needs.
Select the Scene
Activate the MEMORY switch for Arp
Activate the Arp Master switch
Select an ARP Select number for this Scene.

Rinse and repeat for Scene 2

These are easily recalled by the dark blue buttons located below the the Super Knob.
Arp Phrases are attached to the Performance and will be STORED to the User Performance when you press [STORE] as an addition to the Part you assign it to… the Performance Part can be recalled with or without the associated Arp Phrases.

 
Posted : 12/11/2023 6:54 pm
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

_Arp Select 1-8 (but only if the Arp Phrase has been assigned to the Arp Select location)
If you cannot select a different Phrase by changing the “Arp Select” Knob to “2”, it is because no Arpeggio Phrase is assigned to Arp Select 2.

My testing shows that there is ALWAYS an assignment to all 8 arp slots for eny part. Even the
4 INIT performances have all 8 slots filled. Seemingly 'empty' slots show a name of 'No Assign' and, if you press SHIFT SHOW VALUE show an arp # of zero although there is no such arp in the Data List.

But the Arp Select Knob allows you to go from 1-8 for all 8 slots. The 'gotcha' is that you there is no indication on the sub display that the slot is really empty. So you might change the values for that slot but they really won't affect anything until you fill the slot with an arpeggio. And, of course, you can't do that from the sub display.

If you are on the 'Edit Part Common -> Arpeggio -> Individual' you might expect that using SHIFT JUMP would take you to that Arp/MS screen of the sub display but it won't. Another one of those 'things to get used to'.

Another is that although you select Arp #3 on the sub display the parameters shown are the part common parameters and NOT the parameters for Arp #3.

The sub display will show a Gate Time parameter but this is the part common one. On the main 'Individual' display there is also a Gate Time parameter for each arp but it doesn't appear that you can see/set/modify these from the sub displaly - at least I haven't found a way yet.

 
Posted : 12/11/2023 8:44 pm
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

If you press the [PAGE JUMP] button you will open the “ARP/MS” -> “Arp Common” screen on the MainDisplay.
Here you can see the eight Arp Select locations

Under the “Arp Common” in column 2, tap “Arp Overview”
This is where Arpeggios can be assigned to the current Arp Select location
Tap the line to see the pop-in menu to launch “Category Search”
Arp Category Search is purple.

Well - yes and no. It depends on whether the sub display is showing the ARP/MS for the performance common or showing it for a part.

Yes - if the sub display is showing the performance common. But if the sub display is showing data for a selected part then the PAGE JUMP' button will take you to the part level 'Arpeggio - Common display.

This is another one of those navigation things that takes some getting used to:

1. The sub display will only show the ARP/MS data if the QUICK EDIT button is lit and 'SELECTED PART' is also lit. However that does NOT mean that a part is actually selected.

2. The PART buttons at the bottom will determine if a part is actually selected (one of the part buttons is bright blue) or if the performance common is selected (COMMON button is bright blue.

The common, or part, button that is selected will determine which main screen is displayed when you use PAGE JUMP.

Took me some time to accept that the quick edit 'SELECTED PART' doesn't necessarily mean there even is a selected part.

 
Posted : 12/11/2023 8:58 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 0
 

My testing shows that there is ALWAYS an assignment to all 8 arp slots for eny part. Even the
4 INIT performances have all 8 slots filled.

Keep testing… they do not ALWAYS have an assignment. And not even all 4 INIT Performances have all the slots filled. You are making claims not supported by the synth.

Take your time, you are missing what Quick Edit is about… it is to edit those things you have put into place. Assigning Arpeggio Types to individual Parts is not (by any stretch of the imagination), a ‘quick’ edit, it is an “in depth” edit handled on the MainDisplay.

A “quick” edit would NOT be assigning Arps, but would be: changing the swing Quantize, altering the gate time (duration) of phrase notes, altering how the assigned phrase is to reference clock… of already assigned Arp Phrases. Like Quick Edit parameters in the MONTAGE/MODX/MODX+, in general, they edit by OFFSETTING the stored value.
A Quick Edit Knob labeled “Cutoff” set at +0, if COMMON is adding or subtracting from all active Filters in the Performance. If PART the +0 will offset positive or negative from the 8 Filters assigned to the 8 possible AWM2 Elements, the 2 possible AN-X Filters, or the Filter assigned to an FM-X Part.

What does move from the MainDisplay to the SubDisplay is some of the Part’s “Arp Common” — what are considered Arp Play FX. Typically those parameters that enhance your editing experience… while performing with Arps.

The SubDisplay [PAGE JUMP] can drop you into a similar or deeper edit area depending on what you are working with. The reverse (MainDisplay —> SubDisplay) is usually reserved for those things you might need real-time access to.

The purpose here is so that you can, while auditioning different Arpeggio Phrases, you can select an ARP Phrase on the MainDisplay and simultaneously adjust its ‘feel and attitude’ (swing functions) in the SubDisplay.

1. The sub display will only show the ARP/MS data if the QUICK EDIT button is lit and 'SELECTED PART' is also lit. However that does NOT mean that a part is actually selected.

Not true. Remove the word “only”. And, of course, it does show what Part is actually selected.

2. The PART buttons at the bottom will determine if a part is actually selected (one of the part buttons is bright blue) or if the performance common is selected (COMMON button is bright blue.

Yes, that is one way of selecting the Part, but it is not a prerequisite to viewing Part parameters in the SubDisplay. You can be viewing Elements/Operators/Oscillators (lime green), for example, or you could have [Keyboard Control] (dark green) active on the buttons below the Sliders.
The cyan blue [PART SELECT] button does let you *select* the Part you are viewing but it is not the only way.

The *selected* item, whether Performance Common or a Part Common/El#/Op#/Osc# will ALWAYS be indicated on the very top line of the MainDisplay… and on the second line, far right of the SubDisplay… will show Common or the Part #.

The common, or part, button that is selected will determine which main screen is displayed when you use PAGE JUMP.

Actually, it is the currently *selected* item that determines this. Yes the [COMMON] and [1]-[8] Part buttons under the Sliders can be used to change the selection. But they do NOT have to blue, or lime green, or deep green in order for you to make a selection… they can be used but the system allows you to decide what is most useful.

If you are working on a Single Part Performance, you might opt to view Element Levels while adjusting something in the SubDisplay.

 
Posted : 12/11/2023 9:52 pm
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

Keep testing… they do not ALWAYS have an assignment. And not even all 4 INIT Performances have all the slots filled. You are making claims not supported by the synth.

My claims are made based on what I see on my M8X screen.

Seemingly 'empty' slots show a name of 'No Assign' and, if you press SHIFT SHOW VALUE show an arp # of zero although there is no such arp in the Data List.

The 4 INIT performances all show what I said - look at the INIT NORMAL(AWM2) and the
'Edit part -> Arpeggio -> Individual' screen and you will see that for arps 2-8 it shows:

'---' for category, 'No Assign' for subcategory, 'off' for name, +0% for Velocity, +0% for Gate Time

Those slots are filled. They just aren't filled with an actual arpeggio. And, contrary to what you said,
on the sub display you can use the 'Arp Select' knob to select any of the slot numbers including 2-8 for those INIT performances even though they don't have an actual arpeggio assigned.

A “quick” edit would NOT be assigning Arps, but would be: changing the swing Quantize, altering the gate time (duration) of phrase notes, altering how the assigned phrase is to reference clock.

And I said that you could not assign an arp on the sub display. And I pointed out that those things you are changing on that screen are NOT changing those parameters (e.g. gate time) for the arp you selected but are changing the common values that apply to all 8 arps.

I pointed that out because the 'Arp Select' knob allows you to select arp 1-8 whether there is an arp assigned to slot 1-8 or not.

And, having selected an arp number, it is easy to be mislead into thinking that the other parameters displayed with that arp number actually belong TO that arp number. But they don't - they are common to all arps.

The parameters for an individual arp have to be changed on the main display even though some parameters having the same name appear along with the arp number on the sub display.

The purpose here is so that you can, while auditioning different Arpeggio Phrases, you can select an ARP Phrase on the MainDisplay and simultaneously adjust its ‘feel and attitude’ (swing functions) in the SubDisplay.

Sorry but that is NOT true. The only arp-specific parameters I can find are 'Velocity' and 'Gate Time' and those are NOT available on the sub display but are only on the 'Arpeggio -> Individual' screen on the main display.

The sub display does NOT show the parameters for an individual arp. It shows the COMMON parameters

If you look at the 'Edit Part -> Arpeggio -> Common' screen (page 226 in the ops doc) you will see the parameters that are displayed in the sub display. those are COMMON parameters.

Now if you change the Arp Select at the bottom of that screen you will see the Arp # change
on the sub display but you will NOT see the parameter values changes because they are COMMON and are NOT associated with an individual Arp.

I'm looking at it, and doing it, right now, as I write this.

 
Posted : 12/11/2023 10:27 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 0
 

I’m not going to argue with you…

 
Posted : 12/11/2023 10:34 pm
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

I’m not going to argue with you…

I'm trying to present facts based on what I see on my screen when I make specific changes. Not trying to argue at all.

Back to basics - simple YES/NO question.

Are you saying you can view and edit the parameters of an individual arpeggio on the sub display?

If YES then please tell me how to display that because I can't find a way to do it. The only arpeggio parameters I can get to display on the sub display are the COMMON arp parameters that display on the main display when you select the 'Arpeggio - Common' screen.

I'm making the categorical statement that you can NOT display the parameters of an individual arpeggio on the sub display.

And, if true, then what you first said above is NOT true:

The QUICK EDIT area will allow access to the editing features that let you quickly adjust the assigned Phrase in real-time.

I can't find ANY way to 'adjust the assigned Phrase' on the sub display because those 7 parameters you listed are COMMON parameters - not individual phrase parameters

_Master Arp On/Off
_Arp Select 1-8
_Swing
_Unit Multiply
_Gate Time
_Velocity Rate
_Octave Range

Page 146 of the ops doc also says they are common
Swing - Sets the swing value of the Arpeggio or Motion Sequencer for each Part.
Unit (Part Unit Multiply - Sets the Unit Multiply value of the Arpeggio or Motion Sequencer for each Part
Gate Time - Sets the Arpeggio gate time rate for each Part
Velocity (Arp Velocity Rate) - Sets the Arpeggio velocity rate for each Part

It says 'for each Part' for both COMMON view and PART view.

Prove me wrong - I don't consider that to be arguing.

 
Posted : 12/11/2023 10:49 pm
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