tonio1058 wrote:

Hi . i am a new owner of the montage 7. i was wondering if there is an easy to use "copy job " in the montage (like in the motif XS) in order to copy the settings of a performance (effects etc..) and paste it on an other performance. I am more specifically interested in copying settings from some FM preset voices of the montage to crude DX voices that you can import. hope this make sense...thanks in anticipation for the help...;) 😉

There are COPY (and EXCHANGE) functions in the MONTAGE, what exactly you are looking for is much less clear.

You mention you are “specifically interested in copying settings from some FM Preset voices of the montage to crude DX voices that you can import”... but you don’t specifically mention what you want to copy from the MONTAGE Parts (they are called “Parts” in MONTAGE, not “voices”). A Single Part can be either AWM2 or FM-X... as the source Synth engine. The ability to copy things and some background on MONTAGE is discussed below...

When you import an old six Operator FM sound to MONTAGE’s FM-X Engine, the basic original FM parameter set is imported to an appropriate Algorithm using six of the eight Operators. Because only the output of the FM CARRIERs are routed to the Insertion Effects it would not be practical to simply “copy” the Insert Effect from an existing FM-X Part and apply it to the newly imported FM sound... not that you couldn’t but some things would obviously necessarily change.

Unlike the XS where each Waveform (Element) produced sound and could be routed to the Insertion Effect, or not, the FM-X engine is quite different in how it is integrated with the MONTAGE engine. You mention Effects - those are like “dressing” or gravy that you add to the recipe “to taste”, you would probably do best to apply the Effects yourself.

(You could find the FM-X sound you like, and then change its Algorithm to match the sound you imported, then use the COPY function to copy the Operators of the imported sound into the existing Part... actually, this will work, but it’s probably more fun and much more satisfying (imho) to Program the extensive array of MONTAGE effects yourself. The hard part is the Operator Settings which is done by FM CONVERTER, the easy/fun portion of the programming on imported DX/FM sounds is adding effects, filters, and tweaking the sound... this is a music Synthesizer, after all...

I do understand what you want, you want to be able to copy the work already done to a Performance Part to your newly imported Performance Part. It would be a great shortcut in the transfer of hundreds of DX/FM sounds... if you could simply go to the filer setup used in a Factory sound and just copy it to the imported Part.

That does not exist on a parameter by parameter basis, nor on a area by area basis. This might be because of the depth of integration of things like the routing between individual AWM2 and FM-X Elements/Operators to the Effects... and the differences how they get applied. Or it could be just that it’s still early in the MONTAGE era. I remember things not available in the original Motif, that came later.

While certainly you would spend as much time “fixing” things that are applied serendipitously as you would programming what you want manually... but this copy thing is one of those things that might happen later... but in the meantime, why not learn how to make the application of things like EFFECTS and Filter settings etc, by doing them yourself.

Extra Credit:
To test out the COPY function in response to this question, I imported an DX/FM sound... as you know it comes in “naked” (no dress up Effects, filters, etc,) it’s just the raw DX/FM sound... the DX7 predates effects and filters in FM keyboards... I was able to find an FM-X sound with a VCM EQ 501 and a Rotary Speaker 1 applied...

I placed (“merged”) this already programmed PART to PART 2, right next to the “naked” DX/FM sound in PART 1
Then using the VIEW (HOME) screen I Set PART 2 to the same Algorithm as the imported naked DX/FM in PART 1
Then I COPIED PART 1’s Operators to the correspondingly numbered Operator in PART 2 (a bit of a tricky dance but doable)
Part 1 > Part 2
Op 1 > Op 1
Op 2 > Op 2
Op 3 > Op 3
and so on...

Sure enough you wind up with the same DX/FM sound now routed though the VCM EQ 501 and Rotary Speaker 1
After doing this, I was left with the feeling that, yes, I now have the same basic Insertion Effects... while the Rotary worked as on the factory sound, the EQ was totally serendipitous and really didn’t apply at all. But it is proof that you can copy Operators from Part to Part so that they inherit previous programming... and thus apply existing parameters to your “naked” imported DX/FM sound... but it is not a surgical copy (by surgical, you can’t specify just to copy a particular function, like ‘copy Insert Effect A’).

My conclusion is that I want to recommend that you spend the time, after importing DX/FM sounds, editing that sound yourself rather than copying items from other Parts (at this point... in lieu, of a more elegant solution)

How to Accomplish with current System:
Recognize that many of the Insert Effects have a “Preset” that is used as a starting point. For example, if you hear a Factory sound that has a killer phaser and chorus applied as Insertion Effects, and you wish to set those up on your newly imported DX/FM sound... manually setup the Insert Effects to the same Type and Preset starting point...

What you do next, (is a telling thing about your approach), you can either manually go back and forth and match the exact settings (n/r) or you can use your own ears and begin to tweak the parameters yourself seeing/hearing how the parameters work (recommended)... or a combination of both.

I don’t recommend just copying the parameter settings because you don’t get to learn anything. I do recommend either of the other two approaches, either just go for it, or if you do copy each parameter setting, take the time to play about with it so you learn what it is that made you like it in the first place.

If you have ever had the experience where you change a parameter and it seems to make no difference; some people react by assuming it doesn’t work, others seek to find out why they aren’t hearing it. That’s to be encouraged, especially with a synthesizer.

Those that seek to find out, learn some thing they didn’t know. And because previously they didn’t know what to listen for, they learn a bit more about when this parameter is used to make a difference.

Final note... since Yamaha is always committed to improving product, we can anticipate that as time goes on, new features and functions will become available. The things so far that can be copied (elegantly) from one Performance to another include things like Motion Sequences, User Arpeggios, AWM2 Waveforms...

Dear Bad Mister. As usual great answer going deeply into details and improving knowledge of these complex musical tools ! Can you give me the reference about the copy tool that you mention at the end of your answer ? Last is there is any easy software tool for editing like the one developed by J melas for the motif ?
Thanks again for your time and effort

Can you give me the reference about the copy tool that you mention at the end of your answer ?

In the latest Supplemental Manual (the most recent contains explanations for all the previous firmware updates). On page 46, added back in version 1.10, is the ability to copy or exchange Elements/Operators/DrumKeys. This function, as mentioned can be tricky the first time you setup to do it, but it does save you tons of time and effort trying to duplicate settings.

In general, while in EDIT you can press [SHIFT] + [EDIT] to recall the COPY/EXCHANGE function; when you are at the PART level of editing this will allow you to either COPY or EXCHANGE entire PARTS; when you are on the Element (AWM2) or Operator (FM-X) level of editing, the same buttons will allow you to COPY or EXCHANGE these components... and so on.

Once you recognize that the left side of the screen is the SOURCE and the right side is the DESTINATION, and that in order to populate the SOURCE side, you must enter while your cursor is on the item you wish to copy or exchange. So it requires that select the SOURCE Operator (make sure the highlight is on what you want to copy) then press the SHIFT + EDIT buttons, to open the COPY/EXCHANGE screen... the fact that you started where you did will populate the left side of the screen... you can now set the target (Destination), on the right side of the screen.

You must COPY, then exit and select the next Operator, direct it to the Destination COPY, then exit and select the next Operator direct it to the Destination... As I said, the first time you do it, it can be tricky but basically you are able to populate the SOURCE dialog box of the function by entering while your cursor highlights the parameter. This is a common method of doing this type of thing.

Last is there is any easy software tool for editing like the one developed by J melas for the motif ?

No, but I do know he is working on something for MONTAGE.

Hi Tonio,
we must wait! There is no editor now available.
I read, that John Melas has the Montage and will work on Montage Tools or what ever.
Hopely, we find a surprise under the christmas tree.
But I think, that is more complex to program for John. You have two different sound engines and a lot of new workflow.
John does an amazing job programming the Motif series. And I think that he will give us an editor it works well.
And he is a person not only looking for normal users. Also he is the first one I know, who is programming his tools, that visually impaired users can use the tools too.
And he's the one a lot of people working for factories like Yamaha, Kork, Roland and so forth can look at him.
For them it must be an example.
I hope, we can get the first version as soon as posible.
I like the Melas tools much.
All the Best
Rainer