Wow...sounds like I am in a right 'buggers muddle' with both my termology and use of sustain...do you think I should just delete the pattern (i.e my song) entirely and start again?:

So I guess that I mean I'm recording just one pattern (i.e my song) and YES I have renamed it.....and yes it's linked to a performance

and I'm using 3 pattern SCENES (an intro,verse,chorus)

yes...I'm using 8 (of the 16 available tracks) - 3 pianos,bass,strings,strings,synth pad and drums

Are you saying that if I had recorded this correctly, the sequencer would have recorded the various pattern scene changes and therefore I shouldn't have to change any scenes 'on the fly'?

and simularly...if I had used the sustain correctly that would also have been recorded correctly?

I had left the measures set to 4 so that I could record just 4 measures at a time (cos' I make too many mistakes to record a whole intro or verse at a time). Can I do that or do I have to set the measures to match the whole length of the intro...or verse etc?

I'm not using any looping

yeah I understand 'key on start'

Have I covered all my crimes above? 🙂

Are you saying that if I had recorded this correctly, the sequencer would have recorded the various pattern scene changes and therefore I shouldn't have to change any scenes 'on the fly'?

NO. Pattern Scene changes can be automated only by creating a Pattern Chain.

A Pattern Chain allows you to tell the Sequencer how many measures of each Pattern Scene you want to play. this is NOT done 'on-the-fly" but you actually enter the data into a static grid
Measure 001 -- Play Scene 1
Measure 009 -- Play Scene 2
Measure 025 -- Play Scene 3
etc

Once you have completed several Scenes... Tap the box 'CHAIN"
It will ask you to STORE your data... answer Yes. CHAIN will now be active... You can construct the Pattern Scene Chain by tapping "Edit/Job" > select "Chain"
the CHAIN creation screen
Tap the "+" to insert the first SCENE you want to play

This will place it at Measure 001
Next tap the "+" to add a second SCENE
move the cursor over and tell it what measure you want this SCENE to start playing
and so on....

and simularly...if I had used the sustain correctly that would also have been recorded correctly?

YES, exactly.

I had left the measures set to 4 so that I could record just 4 measures at a time (cos' I make too many mistakes to record a whole intro or verse at a time). Can I do that or do I have to set the measures to match the whole length of the intro...or verse etc?

This is up to you. All I'm saying that if you only record 4 measures and your Intro is 8 measures in LENGTH -- you would need to let the 4 measures play thourgh once and then LOOP once to create 8 Measures.

Measure 1 and Measure 5 are identical
Measure 2 and Measure 6 are identical
Measure 3 and Measure 7 are identical
Measure 4 and Measure 8 are identical

I'm not using any looping

Yes you are - you are in Pattern mode, you are using looping. By definition Patterns LOOP

Have I covered all my crimes above? 🙂

No worries. Take your time. If you as you say, make too many mistakes, you can easily erase mistakes and continue until you get just what you need.

Thanks so far....but given I'm still stuck with this 'Data Memory Full' situation, am I best (in your opinion) to scrap this pattern completely and start again IF this will consequently free up data memory and get me moving again?

Thanks so far....but given I'm still stuck with this 'Data Memory Full' situation, am I best (in your opinion) to scrap this pattern completely and start again IF this will consequently free up data memory and get me moving again?

I can't really say it will fix anything. Because as much as you have told me I still do not have a handle on the format of your SCENES

Are they each 4 measures in LENGTH?
How is it that you think you are NOT using LOOPING? (that is most curious). Pattern SCENEs automatically LOOP when you play back - you do not have a choice about that - that is what they do.

Give me an ideal of how you record SCENE 1...
SCENE 1 is the INTRO, Okay, when you playback you let 4 measures play and then you hit SCENE 2 (?) Is that correct?

Thanks so far....but given I'm still stuck with this 'Data Memory Full' situation, am I best (in your opinion) to scrap this pattern completely and start again IF this will consequently free up data memory and get me moving again?

You don't seem to have done anything radically wrong or that should have used up this much memory. So there might be a weird thing happening that will cause this problem to occur if you delete and start again.

At this point, because it's odd that this fullness has happened with seemingly a small use of the Pattern Sequencer, it might be best to start trying to do remote triage via some more back and forth here, with the uber knowledgeable Bad Mister, to track down what's causing the problem of unnecessary fullness.

The Pattern Sequencer is limited, but not this limited. My daughter uses it very heavily and has never seen this particular fullness, despite often using up all 128 patterns and many of the Scenes in each, often with more than 8 parts, and many Scenes running all the way out to 256 bar, as she sketches out ideas and explores orchestration and patterning.

And then I come along and add filter sweeps and copy out some of her parts to the back 8, and add more animation and motion to some of them, all without any issues on a mere MODX.

My intro is probably about 20 measures long which I have built up in blocks of 4.

As I said, the pattern sequencer has not to date been 'recording' my scenes s midi messages so although it is scene1 one that I usually press when I playback the intro I (scene 1 containing tracks 1-7 open but track 8 (drums) muted) I could theorectically press any of the scenes such as scene 2 or scene 3 but if I did that my intro would have drums playing on it which I don't want so thats why I press scene 1, After the intro I switch scene 2 (on the fly as I've previously mentioned) which has all 8 tracks open so I hear drums on it.... but again theoretically, I could press any of the scenes if I wanted...so if Ileft it on scene 1, the song would continue with just tracks 1-7 open and track 8 muted.

Because of the way I've done all this (clearly wrongly), my pattern scenes have seemingly just been being used as a 'file' of the particular tracks(instruments) that I want to hear at that point in the song

Make any sense?

@Colin

Makes perfect sense, know exactly what you mean, done the same myself, more than a few times.

You're not doing anything wrong, that I know of.

Something's gotta be sticking and spamming huge numbers of controller messages to be filling up the memory.

Do you have a computer, iphone or iPad you can export to, so as to examine the MIDI?

@Andrew

2 responses here

1/ yes...I saved it as a MIDI file and have loaded this Midi file onto my DAW

2/ I decided to delete the whole thing and start agian...I'm so far a 1/4 through the new version and so far no problems but last time the message only started coming up towards the back end of my song so we will see in time!

To Bad Mister,

Unfortunately I have now noticed that many of my preset piano sounds are now not sounding at all. I don't know if this is a result of erasing Aftertouch (a step we took earlier) but I've now taken the painful decision to take a montage backup and do a 'Factory Reset'.

Before going for a 'Initialize All Data' reset, I'm firstly trying an 'Initialize All Settings' to see if this works....but just how long should this initialisation take?...because the superknob has been flashing blue now for about 50mins ..does it usually take ages?...how long should it take and does it then require a power down and restart?

Unfortunately I have now noticed that many of my preset piano sounds are now not sounding at all.

Hi Colin,
It is highly unlikely that the Factory Preset are not sounding. When you say “my preset piano sounds” — this could be a terminology problem.

“Preset” - is the terminology that is used to describe the 2,739 Factory Performances… each contains at least 1 Part or a maximum of up to 8 Parts.
“User” - is the terminology that is used to describe any Performance that you are involved in assembling and storing to the User Bank. If you pressed [STORE], then it is a User Performance. A User Performance can contain as few as 1 Part or a maximum of 16 Parts. (8 Parts for real-time play, up to as many as 16 when sequencing.

If the Factory Performances are not sounding — that could be an indication of a serious problem.
If a Performance that you STORED is having an issue, it could just be a commonly made mistake (explained below).

Skills to Master First
One of the first skills we recommend for any MODX/MONTAGE owner to master is the search for sounds… commonly called “Category Search”. There are three different searches for programmed sounds:
1) “Performance Category Search” - replace everything with an entirely different Performance
2) “Performance Merge” - adds your selection to empty Parts (combines Performances)
3) “Part X - Category Search” - here you need to select a specific Part for the numbered slot (‘X’ is a single Part number from with the Performance).

At first all the Category Search seem the same, they are not. They each have a very specific use case.
Tip: In the upper left corner of every Edit screen is the screen name… letting you know which one you are using.

We’ll leave a link at the bottom. It is highly recommended that you spend a few minutes with this tutorial— we guarantee it will be worth the time and effort.

When you use “Performance Category Search”, you will see the search result field color coded. Blue means the item is a Multi Part Performance… Green means the item only occupies Part slot 1.

Problems can occur: When you start to assemble your own User Performances, you’ll want to know if you have select a BLUE (Multi) item and are expecting all Parts are moved… but if you attempt to place it in a single Part slot… it is possible that you may have selected an incomplete instrument… one that only sounds at specific velocities or from a specific region of the keyboard.

This is an important concept to understand. In Category Search the BLUE (Multi Part) entries might be using several Part slots to build an instrument.
Part 1 of a Multi Part acoustic piano may only contain the Waveforms that respond to hard strikes, while Part 2 might only contain the soft, medium soft, and medium strikes, while another Part might only contain KeyOff Sounds. Or a Multi Part might have some Parts only on the left hand side, and other Parts only on the right hand side. They don’t make sense without their counter Part.

So if you are not aware of the blue/green coding, and are not aware of this impacts Multi Part, Single Part searches, you might, in constructing your own User Performance, select just a partial instrument…
Imagine you select a Part that only plays G5 and above on the keyboard. You might think the piano you selected is no longer working.

This stops happening when you get the Mastering MONTAGE: USING CATEGORY SEARCH tutorial under your belt. You may have this already as a skill but I don’t want to assume that you know this. A Multi is not just one complete sound layered on top of another. It can be used anyway the programmer sees fit. In fact most times it some thing quite different!

Things like the Pop Brass Horn sections, are purposefully programmed so if feels like a section… rather than every key having every horn.
The orchestral string sections Performances are mapped true to the instrument ranges of the violin, viola, cello, and contrabass.

Link — Mastering MONTAGE: Using Category Search

Next point I would suggest — and this is subjective and just a suggestion — I recommend that when learning the sequencer you do not do so on a piece of music you are writing… instead while learning the routines (button presses, preparations, execution) do so on a piece of music you already know. This way 100 percent of your attention is on the process of working the Sequencer.

Also I highly recommend mastering Single Part/ single Track recording, using 16 Parts/16 Tracks, one instrument per MIDI Track. When you are comfortable in this workflow, then try adding using the sequencer where you are playing a 2-Part Multi Part sound in with some single Tracks.

Finally, try full emersion interactive Multi Part recording with Arpeggios and Drums, etc. (if you want to experiment… but to jump in at the deep end of the sequencing pool can be an experience if you come at it from the wrong angle.

In general, if you can hear it when you interact with the MONTAGE keyboard, it will be recorded to the sequencer. So another very important skill is to be clear on how to *select* a Part or multiple Parts to sound simultaneously. KBD CTRL and when and how that works.

The key to the Sequencer is you do not put a Track into record — as you would on most sequencers you may have encountered. When you hit the RECORD button the MONTAGE Sequencer is in record. Each Part has its own dedicated Track. If you communicate with a Part, that Part’s Track will naturally record it.

In order to have the Multi Part programs, where the different Parts interact with each other in ways that go beyond just a simple layer, requires that each have their own MIDI Channel. This allows each Part to generate its own unique data (via an Arpeggiator - yes, each of the first 8 Parts can have its own Arpeggiator). Multi Part programs can interact where you Side Chain the audio of one through another… etc.

While troubleshooting how your data got to the Data Memory Full state, let’s be sure it’s not done because some of the fundamentals were missed.

When you moved the data to Cubase were you able to look at the data?

To Bad Mister:

Thanks for the helpful information above

Update:

Rightly or wrongly, I ended up doing a complete factory reset and have started rebuilding my circa 4 min song on the Pattern Sequencer. (MIDI). This time I ensured that I recorded it correctly using my sustain pedal as discussed in an earlier post

I got to about 90% completion of my song before receiving the same old message "Data Memory Full" 🙁

I have saved the uncompleted song as a .mid FIle which I tried to attach hereby for you to further assess but it says 'this is in an unsupported format to attach??

FYI my DAW is Mixcraft 9 Pro Studio......(not Cubase)

You must Zip the .mid File then you can attach it to your post.

Bad Mister

Try this attachment

I have now fully read the ops manuals regarding recording plus I have viewed the YouTube Tec Talk Live tutorial on Song Recording by Blake.

I have once again deleted the song that I couldn't finish and have started it again closely following Blake's instructions

I would be interested to see if you spotted my errors by looking at the attached MIDI file..it did seem to me when I viewed it on my DAW that there were 8 tracks all the same so maybe I had somehow recorded 8x8=64 which had maxed out my user memory

This file is way too small to be the problem.

It's gotta be something happening on the Montage, in terms of recording signals or messaging or controller info or SOMETHING that's being fired at the Pattern Sequencer such that it's recording (and I kid you not) hundreds of thousands of controller values.

@BadMister what could be recorded locally, in these massive volumes, in the Pattern Sequencer, but not be getting exported because it's a uniquely MODX control or signal/message?

Whatever it is, it's not in the MIDI file.