Well, it seems that you can't . . . according to this:

https://yamahasynth.com/resources/user-and-library/575-user-and-library

I've successfully created a User Library (great feature of the Montage!) but now I want to delete some of the Performances from that library.

What are the steps to accomplish this task?

Once you understand that a Library is data that has been “burned” into Flash ROM it is not as simple as just Deleting an entry. The Library contains all the data that makes your Performances work, including its dependencies (Arps, Live Sets, Motion Sequences, Curves, Micro Tunings, Waveforms).

So no, you cannot just delete one entry in a LIBRARY (where it is) it is in Read Only Memory... literally means all you can do while there is “read” data from it. The Library is a Reference Library, you can read the books but you can’t change any of the data in the Reference books. They are playback only...

To make a change to ROM data:
You must Import the Library to the USER Bank;
Delete the data you do not wish to include in this Library;
Then create a new Library File to your USB stick;
Delete your old Library;
Install your new Library from USB Stick to ROM.

“Import Library” is like copying the data from the Reference book into your own User work area... where you can add to it, delete data from it, then, when you have it as you desire... create a new LIBRARY FILE. Which you can use to replace the old Library in ROM.

That’s how it works. Think of a Library as user writable Presets. Making a change is not a casual thing.

Bad Mister wrote:

To make a change to ROM data:
You must Import the Library to the USER Bank;
Delete the data you do not wish to include in this Library;
Then create a new Library File to your USB stick;
Delete your old Library;
Install your new Library from USB Stick to ROM.

Thank you. That's extremely helpful.

A related question.

How do I combine two libraries into one (where the total performances will not exceed 640)? (The purpose being to use one library slot of the available eight on the Montage, rather than two).

For example, I want to combine the two Gerbo sound sets I have into one.

I do have both library and user files for each of the two soundsets:

Gerbo1.X7U
Gerbo2.X7U
Gerbo1.X7L
Gerbo2.X7L

Thank you.

It’s like this.

You need to create a new Library (it will contain the data of both files).
To create a Library you must assemble the data in the User Bank, then SAVE a Library File.

What you need to know:
A User File .X7U will always replace all data in the User Bank.

This means you CANNOT just simply load the two User File.
We will use “Gerbo1.X7U” and “Gerbo2.X7L”
That’s right, one User File, the other Library File!

What you must do is:
Load “Gerbo1” to USER: Load the “Gerbo1.X7U” as a USER File
[UTILITY] > “Contents” > “Load” > Set “Content Type” = USER FILE

Load the “Gerbo2” as a temporary Library: Load the Gerbo2.X7L as a LIBRARY File.

Once you have Gerbo1 in User, and Gerbo2 in a (temp) Library, you can merge them by importing the temp Library to empty locations of the User Bank... they will pick up where the Gerbo1 data ends... importing does not overwrite anything... it simply will fill the Bank starting with the lowest numbered empty location.

Press [UTILITY]
Touch “Contents” > “Library Import”
Touch the Library folder named “Gerbo2” ...you will see a list of the Performances in the Gerbo2 Library
Touch the box that says “Select All”
Touch the “DATE” box, twice if necessary, to see “Date” followed by an arrow point up... this will place them in the order they were listed in any provided documentation.
Touch the box that says “Import to User Bank”

After the MONTAGE takes care of the heavy lifting... you will have both sets in your current USER BANK....
Make your new Library File - name it appropriately - example: “Gerbo1&2”
You do so by Saving the current User Bank as “Content Type” = Library File.

The new Library File is now on your USB stick.
Delete the temp Library: UTILITY > “Contents” > “Data Utility” > Touch the “Library” folder “Gerbo2” > a pop-in appears Touch “DELETE”

FINALLY... install your “Gerbo1&2.X7L” file as Library File.

Mission accomplished!

Thanks so much. 🙂

Hi,

Bad Mister, I follow what you are saying above but wondering if I could expand the question. (I have searched for the answer in other threads and will continue to).

I am in a similar situation as above, but have both sound sets in libraries. What I intend to do to combine the libraries is to go through them and find the sounds I like, and then import them into the user area. My questions revolve around the waveforms used (they are using 3rd party waveforms).

Currently I understand it that these waveforms are stored in the library area of the 1.75Gb of memory.

When I import a performance that uses waveform A, does that waveform get duplicated in the user area or is a link created to the waveform where it sits in the library?

If I then import a second performance that uses the same waveform A, what happens then with the waveform? Does it get created as another duplicate in user, as another link from this user performance to the original library waveform, or as a link to a single copy of this waveform sitting in the user area?

The next questions will depend on the answers to the above, but basically once I create a user set of just say 100 performances by importing from these two libraries, save the user data as a library file to a USB stick, import this library file to a new library in the Montage - if at that point I delete the original two libraries will the new library have all the waveforms it needs within it? Or will it just have pointers to the original two libraries which are now no longer there?

On another note at the start of this I know I could just import an entire one of the libraries into the user area, but then depending on how waveforms work I may be bringing a bunch of waveforms that are not used in the performances I wind up keeping, and when I delete the performances I don't want to keep my understanding is the waveforms don't get deleted. Is there a show unused waveform function or if I am worried about this should I just do as I was originally going to do - start with a blank user area and just import the performances I know I want to keep?

Thanks for any input on this - loving the Montage.

Spoff

When I import a performance that uses waveform A, does that waveform get duplicated in the user area or is a link created to the waveform where it sits in the library?

If I then import a second performance that uses the same waveform A, what happens then with the waveform? Does it get created as another duplicate in user, as another link from this user performance to the original library waveform, or as a link to a single copy of this waveform sitting in the user area?

No, the Waveform is not duplicated. MONTAGE is aware of the source and has it cataloged. So you can select the Performances you like, MONTAGE takes care to do what you request in the most efficient manner.

Example, say you like six of the sixteen Performances from the Chick Corea Mark V Library, even if you import them one at a time, the MONTAGE will only import the Waveform data once.

If you request a Performance that requires a specific Waveform, MONTAGE will ‘look’ and see if it already has those required Waveforms in memory, and if so it simply points the data to them.

The next questions will depend on the answers to the above, but basically once I create a user set of just say 100 performances by importing from these two libraries, save the user data as a library file to a USB stick, import this library file to a new library in the Montage - if at that point I delete the original two libraries will the new library have all the waveforms it needs within it? Or will it just have pointers to the original two libraries which are now no longer there?

Once you save your assembled data as a new Library File (.X7L) you can freely DELETE both old Libraries and initialize the User Bank. The .X7L File can be installed as your new composite Library it will have everything you need to make the selected Performances play properly.

When you use the UTILITY > “Contents” > “Library Import“ feature, the MONTAGE repoints all the data so that it references USER locations. When you then SAVE AS a Library File the data is repointed so that the file will install the Waveforms to the Library area when you load it.

On another note at the start of this I know I could just import an entire one of the libraries into the user area, but then depending on how waveforms work I may be bringing a bunch of waveforms that are not used in the performances I wind up keeping, and when I delete the performances I don't want to keep my understanding is the waveforms don't get deleted. Is there a show unused waveform function or if I am worried about this should I just do as I was originally going to do - start with a blank user area and just import the performances I know I want to keep?

Importing All will waste memory... all you need to do is Import the Performances you like, the MONTAGE does all the cataloging, avoiding duplicating, it does all the heavy lifting, you just pick the ones you want.

Hi Bad Mister, Happy Thanksgiving weekend.

Thank you for your reply. I was just doing some testing on the subject. Unfortunately the tests seem to conflict with what you are saying. I had one library performance that I imported to the user area a few times. The imports did seem to duplicate the waveform, or at least it duplicated locations for that waveform - in other words when I imported the performance with a third-party waveform it created an entry in waveform search that said that waveform was in user location 1 (looking at it in the element edit screen). And if I keep importing the same performance it keeps adding a new entry in the user waveforms each time.

In addition I just ran another test with the mentioned Chick Corea EPs. Importing the Mark V performance duplicated the waveforms as my user memory was now 400MB more full. And when I go to import it again it won't because it says my sample memory is full. So I don't understand - it looks like the Montage is in fact duplicating the waveforms. At first glance this is alarming. Any thoughts?

Perhaps there is a bug in which the Montage normally doesn't do this but will duplicate if importing the same exact performance (which normally one would not do). (I did this as this way each import was assured to use the same library waveform.)

Thanks,

Spoff

Bad Mister,

Another post of yours led me to the answer. In the other post you referred to a great reference - To quote you:

"For excellent guidance on managing your data please see the following:

•MONTAGE QUICK GUIDE - Part 3 - File and Library Management, section "Library Files" (pages 9 - 11, Music Production Guide 2016-06)
•MONTAGE - Optional Sound Libraries from EASY SOUNDS (pages 12 - 14, Music Production Guide 2016-07)"

The Montage Quick Guide Part 3 had the following information:

"When importing multiple Performances based on the same User Waveforms, those references are detected and no duplicates are created. If another Performance, that is based on the same sample material, is imported later, the User Waveform memory would unnecessarily be burdened. Therefore, careful planning is useful."

That explains the discrepancy and what I have been seeing in my tests. The Montage will not duplicate the waveforms over and over again when importing multiple performances from the library into the user area that use the same waveforms (although it does "duplicate" it the first time - meaning it creates a copy of it for the user area separate from the initial waveform in the Library - which is a consideration if memory is running low.)

But if one imports the performances that use the same waveforms one by one (which one might do if taking days to compile groups of sounds) the waveforms will be duplicated over and over again in the user area. This is something I don't know that many are aware of. So the statement of the Montage will take care of the memory issues should be accompanied with the caveat that all of the the performance imports of performances that share waveforms have to be done in one operation instead of separate imports. I wonder how many people have user sets with some imported sounds and then later find a few more sounds to import from the same library, and are duplicating waveforms without being aware of this.

So to sum it up the Montage is looking for waveform duplicates within the data set to be imported, but not comparing that data to what waveforms are already in the user area.

Thanks for pointing me to the answer and have a good weekend.

Spoff

Kurt wrote:

So to sum it up the Montage is looking for waveform duplicates within the data set to be imported, but not comparing that data to what waveforms are already in the user area.

Definitely good to know! An update that addresses this may never happen but it would be awesome if it did. It's one of those updates that doesn't appeal to advertisers and brochures and youtube promotional material so we might never see it ha

Joe

Joe wrote:

Kurt wrote:

So to sum it up the Montage is looking for waveform duplicates within the data set to be imported, but not comparing that data to what waveforms are already in the user area.

Definitely good to know! An update that addresses this may never happen but it would be awesome if it did. It's one of those updates that doesn't appeal to advertisers and brochures and youtube promotional material so we might never see it ha

Joe

I doubt that we will see it. Ruling out duplicates with the ones it is loading in one operation would be a simple matter of seeing if the elements are pointing to the same library waveform slots - the process doesn't have to be aware of the data that is inside the waveform. But to compare new items to items that are already imported into different user slots, it would need to analyze the actual wave data in the user area and compare it to the imported waveform data to determine if they are the same, which is another level of difficulty. They couldn't go by locationslot and they couldn't even go 100% safely by waveform name without risking deletion of unique waveforms.

Unless each waveform was assigned a globally unique identifier......or some other way of identifying it as a unique file.

Spoff

You are correct, sorry for the confusion. You must mark all items from a Library that are to be imported by checking its box... in a single operation to avoid MONTAGE Importing the data multiple times.

When importing from library to user - the import process will place the waveforms in the user area in order for the user area to remain in-tact when the library is deleted. Until you delete the source (original library) - the source of your "keepers" or part of a multi-library "merge" operation - your waveforms will be located both in the library and user area. Not all waveforms - just the ones you imported. In this sense - the waveform data is redundant since you have the same performance in the library as you do in the user area (the ones you imported).

When you delete the library - this process does not go through your user area and make sure waveforms exist there or not. You know this because if you go to a library performance with a custom waveform (non-preset) and do a [STORE] to user -- this process will NOT make a copy of the waveform data and instead will just point to the library area. Then, if you delete the library - your user performance which was [STORE] copied (not imported) will no longer sound elements that are pointing to the waveform which is now deleted because the library was deleted.

The fact that import brings, to the user area, waveform data at the time of import is the one of the main distinctions between "import" and [STORE] for the same performance.

The assumption is that you delete your source library or libraries - so perhaps the verbiage about not having duplicates is assuming "at the end of the entire process" (after source library deletion). But yes, before deleting the library the waveforms are in both areas -- and I would think it would be fine to call this "duplicate" or "copy" or "mirror image" (of just the imported performances) -- including waveforms. Then when you delete the source library - no more duplicates.