On further investigation, i used the built in midi monitor on the Kurz(thanks Kurzweil for being so damn flexible!) to see what midi messages Im getting on changing programs. It appears the Montage is sending program numbers but not the MSB number. For example my Multi's on the Kurzweil receive a MSB value of 8 and program number 41 for example which equates to 8x41 or something . Regardless of what I set the MSB or LSB numbers I only get a value of 41 or 41 etc not MSB offsets?

Is there a setting somewhere to enable MSB LSB now? If now maybe theres a bug? May have to downgrade to 1.60 again ;-(

Scott

OK, this may have been discussed but discovered Yamaha have swapped the MSB and LSB values over in their midi implementation in V2.0. So what I want to know, are they now going to stay as they are? Will they swap back in another update? Its time consuming going through our whole setlist changing the value in every Performance thats all. If someone can confirm they will stay as they are I'll change them all over.

If you want to send MSB/LSB and Program Changes from the MONTAGE, you must activate the ZONE MASTER function in [UTILITY] > "Settings" > "Advanced". Once this is activate two Pages of Zone related parameters are added to all Performances-- these allow you to configure the MONTAGE as a Master MIDI Keyboard Controller. It becomes an eight Zone controller. A Zone can be an internal MONTAGE Part or an external MIDI device connected to the MONTAGE MIDI Out.

You configure and then store the setup in each Performance you want to use.

The MONTAGE does not send MSB/LSB (Bank Select) and PC (Program Changes) Out via MIDI unless you activate a Zone Switch within the currently selected Performance. In other words, just changing programs on the MONTAGE shouldn't send any kind of Program Change message... unless you've set it up with the "Zone Settings" with the Part.

OK, this may have been discussed but discovered Yamaha have swapped the MSB and LSB values over in their midi implementation in V2.0. So what I want to know, are they now going to stay as they are?

The change in the numbering of MONTAGE Performances should not change what the the MONTAGE is set to send Out via MIDI. As the only way the MONTAGE sends MSB/LSB and PC Out via MIDI is when the Zone Master function is used, and you specifically set the MSB/LSB and PC yourself.

So this *one-time* change in the numbering of internal Performances/Arpeggios should not affect the MONTAGE sending data Out via MIDI. It would only affect those using the MONTAGE as a "slave" device... if this was your issue, then the MONTAGE would not be receiving properly; but the renumbering of internal programs should not impact what the MONTAGE transmits.

Unless there are details not in evidence. Let us know.

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the info, Im aware of how the program changes work. But would like to confirm that after the update the MSB and LSB have swapped. For example ALL my performances used to use a MSB number of 8 then whatever program number i needed on my Kurzweil. Immediately after the update no program changes worked. So on investigatin I tried putting the value of 8 into the LSB slot instead of the MSB and everything worked again. So i want to confirm that if I change all my performances this will not be changed again.

Sorry you’ve lost me... completely. What does MSB or LSB 8 have to do with the MONTAGE? There was no swapping of MSB and LSB Numbers.

Im not sure I explained myself correctly.

When setting for example Channel 16 to switch patches on my other keyboard. There are three values correct? Most significant byte (MSB), least significant byte (LSB), and the program number.

For example I would sent a value of MSB (08), LSB(0), program number (41) to my external gear to change patches as obviously you need the MSB or LSB numbers if you are selecting values above number 128 for the program number.

After the update instead of sending the above I need to send LSB(08), MSB(0) and program number (41)??

In my outboard gear you need the LSB/MSB numbers as a multiplier to get patch number 1024 for example. However the update requires you to use the LSB number as the multiplier rather than the MSB number as the multiplier.

I hope this is clear enough..

Scott

Sorry, I don't see how that has anything to do with the MONTAGE.

Not sure how firmware would affect the MIDI output for bank and PC. I would use a MIDI monitor to see the message with MSB/LSB swapped. Should see both come out as valid.

Seriously? To be honest it doesn't bother me, but if this has been changed it IS a MONTAGE issue. I have time on my side but for someone coming from 1.60 and updates before a gig, then finds their program changes no longer work this could be an issue.

I dont know how this could happen either, however I KNOW it has because about 90% of my patches are exactly how they were in version 1.60 and no longer work with the same numbers they used to. Two patches I changed to test and now they work once Ive swapped the MSB and LSB values in the performance.

How can it have nothing to do with the montage when the changes that occured are ON THE MONTAGE?

Sometimes I feel like you get attacked for trying to help others by reporting POSSIBLE bugs. I dont have the time to install 1.60 then 2.0 and compare again but can assure you the full backup file was loaded, everything else is fine other than this issue. I'll just go through and change the 70 or so performances that no longer work to the new MSB LSB numbers.

Again, doesnt bother me but will just leave this for others in case someone else experiences this issue. They won't notice unless they are using patch numbers higher than 128.

Scott

Well didnt go as planned, not only has the above scenario happened all the program numbers must have changed as all my performances now contain the wrong program links... looks like I'll have to downgrade to 1.60 again as don't have a clue what all the multiple programs in my performances were and too time consuming to re program everything. What a shambles....

Now hoping I can find v1.60 somewhere.

Does anyone have a link to OS v1.6 the old link takes me to V2.0, please urgently as have rehearsal tomorrow morning.

No one is doubting that your data no longer works, only you know that. No reason to doubt it, you’ve stated it. The reason you decided this happened is what’s in question. The change in the MSB/LSB Numbers of the internal MONTAGE Performances has no effect on what numbers your Kurweil or any other device responds to... that’s not how this works.

You know your data, I don’t doubt you

Sorry, what you are reporting does not follow as having been caused by the MSB/LSB Numbers that the MONTAGE only uses to recall its own data when controlled externally via MIDI. Period. And that clearly is NOT your situation. Don’t know why all your programs are thrown off... you have not explained nor have you even mentioned your Zone Master Mode settings... so there is some missing information you have not thought to supply or have yet to supply.

Let me bring it up again, perhaps this time you will choose to answer... how do you have your Zone Master settings configured on MONTAGE? Can you describe the screen where you are sending MSB/LSB to the Kurzweil? Please.

Hi Scott Got 1.6 here

Hope it helps

Cheers

Paul

Edit disconnected the link to 1.6 because no longer required

Thanks so much Paul.... couldnt sleep and its mignight here so going to try to downgrade to put my mind at ease. I''ll take a couple of pics of the screens I use to change settings to try and help diagnose what went wrong. I just don't have time to go through all my performances and use the method Justin explained in the other thread to work out the old program locations before rehearsal. I did also notice in the part settings general tab the zone switch defaulted back to OFF instead on ON with the Transmit Ch Off, I use this setting on any channels i have programs on in the montage to stop it sending note data to the Kurzweil. I tried changing this back to what it was before the update but the programs were still incorrect. Dont think the boys would like the sound of playing the intro of Don't Stop Believing with a timpani or string sound 😀