Again, I have no opinion about what could, should or is a good idea…

I didn't ask for your 'opinion'. I ask for a factual answer, 4 times now, for this question:

The Modx had 'mute' and 'solo' buttons on the display that allowed you to mute and solo any of the (then) available 8 elements/operators.

Does the M8X have similar 'on screen' mute and solo buttons? If so how do I navigate to the screen they are on? Are they only for elements 1-8?

I'm at a loss to understand how you interpret that as asking for an 'opinion about what could, should or is a good idea'.

Our polarization filters seem to be set at 90 degrees to one another.

@Darryl
Here is a link to 49 basic videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1QFE52k3bE&list=PLS-Ia4lCojtxP6YKCKlS5-q0GpQMwf2wR&index=2

Each one is pretty short so don't expect too much from them.

Where is the mute switch located for element 12 of the CFX Concert performance?

Can you find it now?

Hint: it’s the 4th Element in Part 2.

It's really disappointing that you resort to just playing games.

Why can't you just answer my simple question by saying NO, it is NOT POSSIBLE to mute element 12 of the CFX Concert performance? Or confirm that there are no mute switches or mute functionality at all for elements 9-128?

Yes - I downloaded your 'solution' but it just confirmed what I already suspected.

Your 'solution' for muting is essentially DON'T USE the new extended elements if you need to mute or solo use the old instrument if you need to solo and use the old performance structure if you need to mute.

A simple 'cannot be done' is all that was needed for confirmation.

I get the concept you mention about working in sets of 8 for Elements (9-128) in a PART, such that we just Copy or Exchange the next 8 Elements to another PART. Everything is in groups/sets of 8. It seems a little tedious but workable!

A LITTLE tedious! LOL!

I suggest you use your current instrument and do a simulated 'deconstruction' by using element copy/exchange manually 18 times and get a real feel for what you will be faced with.

And don't forget you still have to copy them back. All because the overlooked including that functionality when they added the extended elements.

That still won't let you SOLO or MUTE elements 9-128 in the real performance on an M.

Someone at Yamaha let that mal-designed extended element functionality fall through the cracks. Most likely because someone made the decision to kick that thing out the door by xx/xx/xxxx or else.

If the REAL solution was to copy stuff somewhere else to work on it they would have added that functionality themselves using the ranges you mentioned: copy/exchange 1-8, 9-16, etc.

Can't this "solo" "mute" function for all 128 be very simply added to the workflow either on the big screen menu etc. in an OS update? Yamaha does rush things (however 7 years is forever) but they will typically make amends/improvements but you might need to add this to IdeaScale. Might take them a year but they didn't need this functionality on the Classic Montage because all it could do were 8 elements. Should it have been ready to go at release? Yes. If a grid appeared on a pull down menu showing all 128 elements with a tick box for solo or mute that's pretty simple I'd think. You might have to flip some pages however but typically there won't be many more than 20 or 30 I'm guessing.

but you might need to add this to IdeaScale.

I added that, and others, several days ago. My guess is that their developers are already aware the functionlaity is missing and are working on adding it. I'm betting the next release might even see a couple new knobs on the Element Osc /Tune screen so you can use knobs to select parts and elements instead of scrolling through dropsdowns.

Time will tell. I mean, That first OS update (1.11) was available only a few hours after the product release since they had to freeze the OS to get the first units into the distribution line to be ready for the release date.

The other 'guess'' that Jason had, and I think he's right, is that the new ESP software release will have more of this missing functionality in it also.

It was obvious even after 7 years Yamaha still didn't have the ESP ready to go at release. I'm considering retuning my M6 and checking out the Genos 2 and waiting for the M to get fully worked out over the next year.

[quotePost id=124131]I suggest you use your current instrument and do a simulated 'deconstruction' by using element copy/exchange manually 18 times and get a real feel for what you will be faced with.
That still won't let you SOLO or MUTE elements 9-128 in the real performance on an M.
Someone at Yamaha let that mal-designed extended element functionality fall through the cracks. Most likely because someone made the decision to kick that thing out the door by xx/xx/xxxx or else.
If the REAL solution was to copy stuff somewhere else to work on it they would have added that functionality themselves using the ranges you mentioned: copy/exchange 1-8, 9-16, etc.
[/quotePost]
It appears that Yamaha did put all their focus on ensuring all programming/editability is set for the AN-X, and over-looked the AMW2 in terms of programming/editing/working with it's additional Elements. However, perhaps it's a timing thing and they will add the functionality to AWM2, as well as additional enhancements/features to the FM-X engine in a future OS update. It could even change a fair bit once the Expanded Softsynth Plugin (E.S.P) is released in 2024. If I understand correctly, the read-only version will be released first & maybe it will allow for viewing all the Elements (128) in a more useful way such that people won't need to deconstruct like they do now to do proper editing..!? Or maybe once they release the editable version in the summer it will contain that functionality, and that will be off loaded to your DAW instead of on the Montage M itself. Personally I would be OK with that. Regardless, if I were in a position to get a Montage M, I would be crafting some really well titled and explained ideas around improvements for the AWM2 viewing/editing, FM-X enhancements, and a VCM effect for pianos.

But unfortunately for me, I don't have any budget that allows me to trade up and get the Montage M8x like I so wish I could, and therefore I don't have the luxury of being faced with these issues, so I won't be deconstructing 128 Elements PARTs sadly. I will not be adding ideas to Ideascale anymore for several reasons ... because I don't have a Montage M, they are no longer developing my Montage, and after over 3 years of leaving us all hanging without a word & complete silence (while they took notes re-categorizing as I still continued adding new ideas for their future products, yet thinking I was adding them for the Montage), so I feel like almost all the ideas I submitted for the 'Montage' via the Montage/MODX category, Yamaha had decided 3 years ago to implement them in the Montage M and future products that I won't have instead (they already added my C7, the YC organ rotary effect, and I just know they are going to add enhancements to FM-X idea), all while leaving me with an upright piano that I never wanted & don't know if I'll ever use, so yeah, I feel a bit used & betrayed by Yamaha and now I'm completely done with Ideascale!

I still enjoy discussing stuff on here, including the new Montage M, and just basically dreaming that some miracle might happen that will allow me to own a Montage M8x someday, but my hopes are quite low at this point in time and I don't see that changing anytime soon. What make it even more difficult sometimes though is when I see some people post on forums pics of their setup and one person of a Facebook group had 3 or 4 racks of synths with 4+ synths in each rack, including a new Montage M8x, a Montage, 2 x Fantom 8's, a Nautilus, and every other awesome synth/workstation out there that the most people dream of having...

The problems that you are describing with your new Montage M appear to be legit and I don't have an answer or solution for them, but I sure wish I had those problems to be concerned with!

@Darryl. Yeah I couldn't afford much working for the man. I had to start my own company before I could rack up a bunch of synths. Still can't afford them so I trade a lot. Family of 9 to take care of and I don't even have a vehicle anymore. My 16 year old took it. I mean I have 6 cars I pay insurance on but none of them are mine except a 1996 Ford Ranger that shouldn't be on the road. These new Ms and Genos 2 and I want them to at least try. Might have to sell a kidney or a kid. Some of those folks get gear for half or free but I have to pay mostly full price or buy refurb or used. I bought a brand new Fantom Roland refurbished for probably cost. But realistically you can buy something like an Osmose or ASM and have so much fun it never ends. Get a CK61 absolutely affordable and super fun for 1/5 of the M8x.

[quotePost id=124147]This is becoming a clear sacrifice. The Japanese market won't bear this kind of fakery.[/quotePost]
I am curious, is it a Montage or a MODX(+) that you own?

Given the current functionality, it appears the design philosophy is for Elements 1-8 to work as the "scratchpad" area (analogous to the User memory area that allows editing anything and storing) and that Elements >9 are sort of like the Library area - meaning that there's some additional limitation to >9 that make them unlike 1-8 (as in ability to see element activity, etc). And maybe the intent is that you do your detailed work with just Elements 1-8 then after you're done move them to a position >9 and then work on the next 8 elements under 1-8. There are compromises to be had with these limitations - but the shuffle game is fairly common. It's almost an expected feature and (intentionally or unintentionally) gives motivation for development (and up until now for Montage, sales) of an offline editor.

I think it's fair to wish there was a better way and point out the workflow challenges of the current system. To devise "work arounds" for the gap between what is available and what is wished for. To socialize these so others can provide their tips/tricks (including Yamaha support feedback). Even a healthy amount of constructive critique.

Still seems like s simple page shift implementation would very simply relocate to elements >8, to the next group of 8 and you perform your changes and shift again etc. Parts 1 thru 8 and 9 thru 16 have a page shift where all the controls change. You would have thought this would already be a function if they intend to offer 128 elements to access. Surely they just haven't finished it yet being based on the classic Montage and it was lower on the priority list before the launch date, which had already been delayed about a year.

It would be interesting to know what Yamaha's main sound designers use as a workflow for programming AWM2 PARTs with >8 Elements..!?

I think it's fair to wish there was a better way and point out the workflow challenges of the current system. To devise "work arounds" for the gap between what is available and what is wished for.

Absolutely!

But that isn't what this thread of mine is about. Reread my original post and the order of events is:

I reported what I found as potentially missing functionality

I can find no way to mute or solo extended elements 9-128.

Bad Mister replied with

You can Solo or Mute any Element while viewing its “Part - Element” screen

To which I replied

Please provide more detail.

Regarding SOLO - I haven't seen any solo button/indicator on the elements screen nor any mention the operations doc.

I also don't see any reference to 'mute' on any of the edit element screens. There is an ON/OFF slider on the Osc / Tune screen and that removes the element from the part altogether.

Naturally removing the element will effectively 'mute' it but the previous instruments had both ON/OFF and MUTE buttons.
. . .
I don't see any 'mute switch for each element/operator'.

Where is the mute switch located for element 12 of the CFX Concert performance?

At which point BM pretty much refused to acknowledge that there is no way to mute or solo extended elements 9-128 and, instead diverted into several replies detailing a workaround that I, myself, had already posted in my original statement

So I'm not sure just how you can add a new element to a part and test it individually. The only work-around I have found is:

1. add a new one element part
2. test the element there
3. use copy/exchange to move the tested element to the part being built
4. delete the part added for testing

He said you can Solo or Mute 'any Element' (see quote above) while viewing its screen.

I ask him how - he didn't, and can't, back up what he said.

The rest of his and my exchange in the thread is pretty much superfluous .

Users are entitled to an HONEST acknowledgement of what functionality is, and is not, present.

It is absolutely appropriate to offer workarounds - but not as an attempt to avoid answering the question asked.

It would be interesting to know what Yamaha's main sound designers use as a workflow for programming AWM2 PARTs with >8 Elements..!?

Quite probably they used an early EDP version to do it in software on their computer.

For revamped, existing performances like CFX Concert there wasn't much programming to do. So they could just load the existing multi-part performance, modify elements in the other parts, copy them to part 1 and then delete the other parts.

Or, as Bill said, we may never know.