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Montage 6 Control of Super Knob with FC7 Pedal

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Bob
 Bob
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I play a Montage 6 and use the FC7 pedal to control the super knob. I don't like taking my hands off the keyboard while playing. I've noticed that there is a slight delay (latency) when I first engage the foot pedal. Sometimes to get it to work I have to move it all the way up and down. Is there something in the "settings" for the foot controller that I need to adjust to help it respond faster? I have the latest OS installed. Thank you.

 
Posted : 27/10/2023 1:37 pm
Dragos
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Most Performances have the SuperKnob set at a different value than 0 (start), like in the middle of the range or even at the end.
Your pedal needs to "catch" the current value of the SuperKnob, otherwise as soon as you move the padal the SK would jump.

It's the same with the Montage sliders, they can be at zero but display various values, and won't change the value until the slider doesn't reach it.

 
Posted : 27/10/2023 2:18 pm
Posts: 773
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Is there something in the "settings" for the foot controller that I need to adjust to help it respond faster?

Yes - there is a setting that may help but you will need to test it for your use case.

The 'Controller Reset' parameter is on the 'Utility -> Settings -> MIDI I/O page.

See p170 of the referenced doc
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/9/812529/montage_en_rm_b0.pdf

Controller Reset
Determines the status of the controllers (Modulation Wheel, Aftertouch, Foot Controller, Breath Controller,
Knobs, etc.) when switching between Performances. When this is set to “Hold,” the controllers are kept at
the current setting. When this is set to “Reset,” the controllers are reset to the default states (below).
Pitch Bend Center
Modulation Wheel Minimum
Aftertouch Minimum
Foot Controller Maximum
Footswitch Off
Ribbon Controller Center
Breath Controller Maximum
Expression Maximum
Assignable Switches 1 and 2 Off
Motion Sequencer Hold Off
Each Lane of Motion Sequencer 0 (minimum) when Lane Motion Sequencer
Polarity is set to “Unipolar”
64 (center) when Lane M

You can see in the table that if the parameter value is 'Reset' the foot controller will get reset to a MAX value.

That will cause the issue Dragos explained. If you switch performance with the foot controller below MAXIMUM (e.g. it was used to do a volume 'fade' for the last performance) then when you change performancese the 'soft' value will be MAX due to the reset but the physical value will be MIN because you did the fade.

As Dragos explained in order to SYNC the soft and hard values you need to move the foot pedal to MAX to 'catch' the real value and then move the pedal back to where you want it for the new performance.

If you set the parameter to HOLD that 'soft' value will be the last pedal position you used - could be MAX, MIN or anywhere in between.

On the new Montage M the value of the 'Controller Reset' parameter does NOT change when you power down and then power up again. Once set it stays that way until you change it.

You will need to test on your Montage 6 but I think it will work the same way.

 
Posted : 27/10/2023 3:23 pm
Bob
 Bob
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Topic starter
 

Thank you all for the help. I'll try the controller reset parament as suggested.

 
Posted : 30/10/2023 2:48 am
Posts: 773
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I'll try the controller reset parament as suggested.

Just remember - it is an instrument level setting - not a performance setting.

If you are playing 10 songs you might need it set to RESET for 3 of them and to HOLD for others. You will have to manually set it when you need it changed.

And it is EASY to finish a gig and forget to set it back to whatever your want as the default. But if you don't it won't work the way you expect it and you have remember that you 'forgot'!

 
Posted : 30/10/2023 3:11 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 0
 

Dragos gave you the correct answer.

Although the partial ‘cut and paste’ from the Data List booklet deals with specific Controllers and how they are Reset (normally) when a program is recalled. But you will notice that the “Super Knob” is not one of the controllers that can be commanded by the Controller Reset set to ‘HOLD’. (It simply is not on the list).

If a Performance is stored with the Super Knob value at minimum, as pointed out by Dragos, you will need to move your FC7 to the full heel-down position to “catch” (or grab) that value and match the Super Knob value which are registered by the lighted indicators.

The Super Knob often is stored a 0 (minimum) - this mean you must go fullly heel-down with the FC7 before it engages and controls the assigned functions.

What you can do:
The Super Knob can be stored at any position, minimum, maximum, or anywhere in-between.
You can even customize the direction - and store it to your User Performance.

You can develop a technique of stepping on the back end of the FC7 using your toe -the pedal opens like an alligator - this quickly reduces it to minimum and “catches/engages” control.

Alternatively, you can program the sounds that you use, so the Super Knob is in a different position than the Factory program…Rename and STORE your version in the USER BANK.

Extra Credit:
While Foot Controllers do reset to maximum (127) when they are linked to a channel based CC#, almost all of the Factory Performances have been reprogrammed so that Foot Ctrl 2 is equal to the Super Knob… instead of being assigned to a CC#, the Foot Control 2 is now, the Super Knob…
Technically speaking, it is no longer considered a Foot Controller, it is now a surrogate Super Knob
Super Knob is not affected by Controller Reset (as outlined by data from the pdf).

 
Posted : 02/11/2023 8:22 pm
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

@Bob - Are you using the FC7 as foot controller #1 or #2?

@BM

the Factory Performances all have reprogrammed Foot Ctrl 2 to be equal to the Super Knob… instead of being assigned to a CC#, the Foot Control 2 is now, the Super Knob…

Please clarify.

Setting #2 to CC95 does NOT control the super knob even though the super knob is assigned CC95.

I'm assuming that the CC settings on the 'Control -> Control Number' screen indicate the CC
number (OFF, 1-95, SuperKnob) that is sent OUT from the instrument for the controlles/swithes on the screen. And that the special setting of 'Super Knob' sends out CC95 but also ADDS internal functionality to link to, and control the Super Knob itself.

Is that correct?

You can develop a technique of stepping on the back end of the FC7 using your toe -the pedal opens like an alligator - this quickly reduces it to minimum and “catches/engages” control.

Just trying to understand this. Are you saying to do that BEFORE switching to the new performance? Or immediatly AFTER switching to the new performance?

And doesn't that only apply to this use case.

The Super Knob often is stored a 0 (minimum) - this mean you must go fullly heel-down with the FC7 before it engages and controls the assigned functions.

My tests show that if you have one perf with super knob value stored LOW and another with it stored HIGH and you switch between them you still have to move the pedal to "catch/engage" the incoming value.

In other words, isn't OP going to have to be aware of what the super knob setting of the new performance is relative to where it is at the end of the current performance?

I may be wrong but I would assume it is the user's responsibilty to make sure their performances chain together properly for the super knob setting just as it is their responsibility for other settings like volume and the other controllers.

Doesn't seem to me you can avoid the 'catch/engage' thing for any controller, including the super knob, if the performance settings might be radically different.

 
Posted : 02/11/2023 9:45 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 0
 

You are starting to get it… you cannot avoid the thing where you must go “catch” the value… that’s why Dragos was correct. The Foot Controller is not motorized so it can be totally out of sync with the Super Knob value when you call up a new Performance.

Your listing of Controller Resets does not address the OP questions about the Super Knob. The Super Knob is not even on that list.

It does NOT “Hold” when you set Controller Reset = Hold. You must develop a technique to move the physical Foot Controller pedal to match the location of the stored Super Knob’s lights. Or you can reprogram your Performance.

You are free to edit the program so the Knob is not stored in such an extreme position.
Perhaps it is more comfortable to set your Performance so the Super Knob value is stored at maximum - it might be easier to press use toe-down position to execute the “catch” maneuver.

You could program your Performance to suit what is comfortable for you.

 
Posted : 03/11/2023 2:54 am
Posts: 773
Prominent Member
 

You could program your Performance to suit what is comfortable for you.

Or, knowing how you just LOVE change requests, it looks like there is JUST ENOUGH ROOM on the Live Set edit screen to add 'Super Knob' value just to the right of 'Volume' and then you could chain them together smoothly.

Or not.

 
Posted : 03/11/2023 3:03 am
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