The placation prevents you from selling it to buy something else, as you're unsatisfied desires for the product are placated by their portending of possible future potential potential.

Not at all. Rather, my unsatisfied desires for the product are placated by other products. I don't believe in buying something based on what it may do in the future. If something doesn't do the best job available for what I need it for today(within the apporpriate budget and weight limits), I'll buy something else. And if I buy something new, I don't necessarily sell the first thing, because that thing may still be better for different uses. Nothing is the best choice for everything.

If I have the ability to offer suggestions that may make something better, I'll do it. But I don't count on those things being implemented, and I don't delay buying something else on the off chance that they may be implemented to one extent or another at some unknown point in the future. That would be silly. The existence of postings on ideascale has no impact whatsoever on whether I keep or sell my MODX, or whether I do or do not buy something else. I bought Yamahas, Korgs, Rolands, etc. in the 70s/80s, and I've bought more things from those companies this century, and Ideascale wasn't a factor in either century.

Also, while my MODX was a great purchase, I ended up returning the YC61 and CP73 because they missed the mark for me... but I did post my suggestions on ideascale. I wasn't going to hold on to those boards hoping that Yamaha may eventually make those changes. I have bought (and kept) a number of other boards since buying the MODX7, though.

Also, while my MODX was a great purchase, I ended up returning the YC61 and CP73 because they missed the mark for me... but I did post my suggestions on ideascale. I wasn't going to hold on to those boards hoping that Yamaha may eventually make those changes.

Did you miss the overlap?

And your personal opinions and disquiet about the current state are isolated, within Ideascale, as is your general disquiet, because that's the "correct" place to express those things, and the only meaningful place (you believe) to express those things, because they told you so.

Ideascale was not the only place I expressed my opinions about the strengths and weaknesses of these boards... I also post here and on keyboard corner at the musicplayer forum and pianoworld and other places, and comment freely. So no, my criticisms have not been "isolated" to the "correct" place. But I put them there as well, in case they might actually have some impact on future design.

So you were wrong in suggesting that ideascale will prompt me to keep a board I'd otherwise get rid of, and you're wrong in suggesting that Ideascale will make it less likely that I will discuss a product's shortcomings elsewhere.

Ideascale was not the only place I expressed my opinions about the strengths and weaknesses of these boards... I also post here and on keyboard corner at the musicplayer forum and pianoworld and other places, and comment freely. So no, my criticisms have not been "isolated" to the "correct" place. But I put them there as well, in case they might actually have some impact on future design.

So you were wrong in suggesting that ideascale will prompt me to keep a board I'd otherwise get rid of, and you're wrong in suggesting that Ideascale will make it less likely that I will discuss a product's shortcomings elsewhere.

you forgot to add:

"...and you're wrong because I correctly view the behaviour and responses of everyone through the distilled prism of my own behaviour and responses."

you forgot to add:

"...and you're wrong because I correctly view the behaviour and responses of everyone through the distilled prism of my own behaviour and responses."

You made it about me personally. (See e.g. "They've resold you" and your response to my saying I'm platform-agnostic.) If you believe I'm an example of what you're describing, it makes sense for me to reply from that perspective and explain why I'm not.

It was always about the royal you. Any discussion of a mechanism such as this is, by definition, about the trends of corporatism towards absolving themselves of all forms of responsibility. We're seeing that play out on a scale that is only possible because of the full extent of such mechanisms.

What you personally do is also within that framework, and an indicator, despite your protestations to the contrary. These systems work perfectly to diminish your voice (both personally and the royal you) whilst convincing you (both personally and the royal you) otherwise.

Summary:

Some think consumers are sheep led to corporate slaughter. Some disagree.
Some think consumer feedback systems are straw men meant to placate, pacify, or otherwise mislead. Some disagree.
Montage is not EOL (yet) although there are always those who doubt or play devil's advocate for sport.

Not to diminish the lively discussion here - but I'd rather not see it devolve further if at all possible. Thanks for keeping it civil and maintaining respect.

To you point, the Montage and MODX are definitely not EOL. They'll survive the entire next generation, for several reasons.

1. The MDOX is a very keenly priced: unprecedented FM-X and Motion Control bang-per-buck
2. The Montage has probably fully paid back all research and development costs, it's all creme
3. The Montage's existence is as marquees to the MODX - making its value more apparent
4. For crisp, powerful, multi-timbral, multi-motion, multi-formant FM, there is no competition

5. the Chip and supply shortages mean it's best to stick with what you've got going, if you can keep it going
6. the enormous economic uncertainties of the near and medium term mean it's not a good time to take risks
7. most of the means of travel and live events and promotional vehicles of the past are in jeopardy or gone
7. every other manufacturer is in the same boat, so there's no need to try to jump ahead or sideways
8. Yamaha is the slowest moving of all the major musical equipment manufacturers out of Japan

Sadly, there is no way to get Yamaha to push more effort into the firmware and Ideascale is one of the reasons for this.

And, as per the OP, there's a lot of low hanging fruit that could make the Montage and MODX even more attractive to potential NEW customers, within the existing market. The real questions are, therefore, does Yamaha have access to parts/chips to satisfy increased demand? Do they have enough free programming talent available to shape and ship new features and low hanging fruit? Do they have someone able to corral the programmers to get it done?

I've strongly suggested "No" to the latter 2 questions before the pandemic.

4. For crisp, powerful, multi-timbral, multi-motion, multi-formant FM, there is no competition

Spoke too soon:

Korg has significantly updated the capability of the Opsix, which was already punching above its weight, thanks to significant ease of use advantages over all prior FM synths:

https://youtu.be/HUUGGUTydgA

Do they have enough free programming talent available to shape and ship new features and low hanging fruit? Do they have someone able to corral the programmers to get it done?

I've strongly suggested "No" to the latter 2 questions before the pandemic.

Of course Yamaha has enough programmers !! Be Reface, YC or CP for example, Yamaha goes on upgrading. For example the last CP upgrade has been released on 2021-10-05 !
So it is just a matter of choice.
On Montage/ModX, the last real significative upgrade (3.5) has been released almost 1,5 year ago !!

Do they have enough free programming talent available to shape and ship new features and low hanging fruit? Do they have someone able to corral the programmers to get it done?

I've strongly suggested "No" to the latter 2 questions before the pandemic.

Of course Yamaha has enough programmers !! Be Reface, YC or CP for example, Yamaha goes on upgrading. For example the last CP upgrade has been released on 2021-10-05 !
So it is just a matter of choice.
On Montage/ModX, the last real significative upgrade (3.5) has been released almost 1,5 year ago !!

are you deliberately contradicting yourself to make a point?

In the beginning I thought IdeaScale was a good way for users to be listened to, then I realized that it's just a sly way to receive (sometimes very good) suggestions for free that will be implemented in the next to come model.
There's also another aspect we don't know and it's how the internal processors of Montage and MODX were designed and if they were born with boundaries or if these limits were already planned since the beginning.
All that said, as a former Motif XF owner I put great expectaions on the Montage, but after 4 years my disappointment is a reality.
I bought also a Roland Fantom 7 and, without being a genius, I began using it almost without reading a single page of its users manual.
I will never buy a Yamaha synthesizer again even if it were to be better than a Roland one.

Yamaha, give Montage a 16 track linear sequencer (like XS/XF series) with improved remix functionality, and re-do the arps completely as most of them are garbage. Thank you.

FWIW, the price of both Montage and MODX went up about 200EUR in Europe in the recent weeks.

Thanks everybody for the lively discussion.

Our goal in the YamahaSynth forums is to help you get the most from your Yamaha Synthesizer. This has been the goal since day one.

Our goal for IdeaScale is to create better instruments by providing a community for people to share ideas

In the next few weeks, we will be posting YamahaSynth and IdeaScale forum guidelines. We’ve been pretty hands off on forum discussions, however recent threads have showed a tendency to derail rather than help. As mentioned above this is not the goal, we really do want to help!

• Product suggestions and ideas should go to IdeaScale.

• Questions about how to use your current Yamaha Synth should go to the YS.com forums.

Going forward, we will be modifying our moderation efforts to meet these stated goals.

To answer the original question, we think Darryl had the best answer here and here.

Thanks again for the discussion. At this point we are closing this thread.