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Montage third party MIDI control

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Colin
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Can anyone tell me if it is possible to program the Montage (using USB MIDI) to an external controller (such as an MPC one midi controller Pad) to enable the recall of one (or hopefully ALL) of the following Montage selections that I need to select for live performance .... and if so, whether this can be all achieved via a single button/pad on the thierd party MIDI controller:

1/ a pre selected 'saved Live Set' Montage sound
2/ a pre selected Octive and Transpose selection
3/ a saved WAV backing track
4/Start/Stop of the backing track

Any feedback much appreciated please

Thanks

 
Posted : 25/11/2022 11:15 am
Jason
Posts: 7905
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1) Live set as long as the target live set slot is within the currently selected bank. You cannot MIDI select the bank. Requires MSB/LSB/PC message
2) Octave/Transpose as long as the Performance (or Live Set) you recall has the octave and transposition set within the Performance itself. This means you would have a different Performance [STORE]'d (saved) for every desired octave and/or transposition. Real-time selecting an arbitrary octave or transposition to tell the instrument to use the current Performance but change its settings would require System Exclusive (SysEx) messages. This is not available from the MPC One if my research is correct (feedback in an Akai forum from a few years ago).
3) Saved WAV backing track can be associated to a Performance using Live Set and recalled using "1) " (Live Set)
4) Start/Stop are accepted by Montage if the MPC can send these messages. This can be filtered, so check the setting "RECEIVE/TRANSMIT SEQ CONTROL - ON/OFF"

 
Posted : 25/11/2022 1:16 pm
Colin
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Hi Jason,

Thanks for your quick response...however I should have added that I am a complete novice when it comes to using MIDI on the Montage and need to know the absolute fundermental basics of how to physically set this up and also what hardware midi controller I would potentially need.

Are you therefore saying in summary that's it's a (qualified) 'yes' to my 4 requirements?

What hardware controller would u posssibly therefore suggest?

Where do I go to learn the basics of setting up this?

Thanks

 
Posted : 25/11/2022 1:34 pm
Jason
Posts: 7905
Illustrious Member
 

Typically when people ask if their external gear can change octaves and transpositions - they expect they will recall a single Performance on their Montage/MODX and then tell that Performance to change octaves or to change transpositions. The rationale given is that they do not want to spend the required time to store multiple Performances with the desired octaves and transpositions and also that picking from a big list of options (Performances) is more clumsy to them than loading a single Performance and then using a second step to change the transposition and/or octave.

There is not an easy way to MIDI tell your keyboard to switch to a different octave or a different transposition. You can use SysEx but such messages are not supported by all gear.

Besides using a bunch of Performances which are variants in octave and/or transposition you could also use multiple Parts where one Part (or set of Parts for layered sounds) are in one transposition and/or octave and another set are in a different transposition/octave. With direct control (direct piano keyboard - meaning your Montage's) you get 8 Parts to choose from. If you're using an external controller then you can get access to all 16 Parts. This method has a lot more caveats but you would setup scenes to select which octave/transposition you wanted (and likely only have 2 maybe 3 choices) and then your MPC could send the required CC to change scenes.

The rest of your inquiry is more or less supported without too many caveats. Keeping all of your Performances within a single Bank is not such a tall order. You have access to 256 Performances (16 live set pages of 16 live set slots each) within Live Set at a time as this is what is available within a single bank. That you cannot change banks within the Live Set MIDI commands isn't impactful unless you need access to more than 256 Performances.

You didn't previously ask the "how" question but recalling a Live Set uses MSB/LSB/PC. These MIDI commands are also known as bank (MSB/LSB) and program change (PC). I cannot tell you how to setup your MPC to do these without myself reading the MPC manual. Maybe seek help on a MPC forum for that side of the configuration.

Specifically, to choose any Live Set within the currently selected Live Set bank is to send the following MSB/LSB/PC messages:

MSB = 62 decimal (or 3E hex)
LSB = 0-15 decimal (or 0-F hex) - this selects page 1 (LSB=0) through page 16 (LSB=15 decimal or F in hex)
PC = 0-15 decimal (or 0-F hex) - this selects the slot number within a page slot 1 (PC=0) through slot 16 (PC=15 decimal or F in hex)

 
Posted : 25/11/2022 9:34 pm
Colin
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Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Reply To Bill...

It sounds like your suggestion of doing it all through the Montage is definately preferable to going down the 'complex' third party midi route.

So I can see how it is possible to associate my chosen Montage performance to a WAV backing track and save that in my Live Set (which is great) but am I right in saying that when I power up the Montage each time and go to the Live Set performace/backing track that I have saved, Montage cannot automatically recall my my chosen octive and transpose settings for that particular performace which means 'on the hoof' extra button presses for each of my chosen songs ..well any that have different octive and transpose requirements..is that correct Bill?

Because in a live situation, an audience isn't going to want to wait an eternity between each of my songs while I indulge in a sequence of button presses!..and no doubt forget some of the time which would be very embarrassing!

 
Posted : 28/11/2022 1:01 pm
Jason
Posts: 7905
Illustrious Member
 

If you have a singular chosen octave and transposition for a tune then bake that into the Performance using note shift, and maybe zone based octave shifting that works on internal sounds too. The Performance in your live set will be the "right" one.

Otherwise each Live set page shows 16 slots at a time. Each page can have all 12 keys of a single tune with 4 slots extra for anything else or left empty. Using this approach would give you 16 tunes per Live Set bank since there are 16 pages per Bank. If you want random access to any key this would be the fastest way to recall.

 
Posted : 28/11/2022 3:49 pm
Colin
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

'bake that into the Performance using note shift'

Can you explain what you mean exactly Jason please?

 
Posted : 28/11/2022 9:14 pm
Colin
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

OK Bill... I did not apreciate the difference between note shift and transpose so let me try that now

Thanks

 
Posted : 28/11/2022 9:19 pm
Colin
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Topic starter
 

I think that also answers my query to Jason

 
Posted : 28/11/2022 9:19 pm
Jason
Posts: 7905
Illustrious Member
 

Transpose doesn't do the same thing as note shift but they are closely related. Transpose will shift your split point along the keyboard and note shift won't. Note shift is sometimes what folks expect when they're wanting to transpose. Sometimes transpose's behavior is more up the alley.

Both could be used for your task (ignoring the recall-ability of each - just in a vacuum where you are using one "transposition" ). You would just need to tidy up each a little differently. The consequence of using one vs the other is self evident as you see how the device reacts to where you think split points should be.

Note shift is a parameter inside the Part (Common) "Part Settings" -> "Pitch". This note shift doesn't stretch the samples - it tells the tone generator to play different notes transposed by the +n semitones or -n semitones. So if you have something you know in Bb and you want to play the same notes but have it sound a whole step higher in C while you still play in the key of Bb then Note Shift would be +2 (2 semitones = one whole step). Split points don't move and you may want them to. If you do, then you'll need to adjust the split points for the Note Shifted transposed Performance.

You'll see all of this as you start building these Performances (if that's the route you want to take).

 
Posted : 28/11/2022 9:31 pm
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