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How to Enable a PART Insert Effect via AsgnKnobs or AsgnSwit buttons?

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Darryl
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I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this one, but thought I'd ask in case someone has a workaround.

Does anyone know of a way to enable (or disable) an Insert Effect on a PART via sequencing (without touching the screen)?
Basically, can enabling an insert effect be assigned to a knob or button so that in the middle of a song it could be changed via sequencing midi without going into the PART and enabling it..!? I don't actually need (nor want) to physically turn a knob or press a button and would prefer to have it automatically be turned on via sequencing at a specific point in a song...if it could be done via Scenes that would work as well, but there is not current functionality/option for this.

BTW, the effect I am looking to enable is 'Talking Modulator' which does not have a Dry/Wet or Mix parameter, so leaving it on and enabling via other parameters is not an option...

 
Posted : 28/11/2022 7:38 pm
Jason
Posts: 7905
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You're going to need to duplicate this Part and in the duplicate Part remove Talking Modulator (use Thru instead). Your sequencer could alternate muting one Part or the other only having one unmuted at a time. This would be identical to the goal at the expense of consuming an additional Part.

An alternative would be to set your Variation effect to the Talking Modulator then send as much as you want from the Part(s) you want Talking Modulator. And finally, use the Variation Effect (Talking Modulator) "Output Level" as your wet/dry. An output level of 0 will be full dry (with respect to talking modulator) and then some positive level below max would be a reasonable place to set it for a more wet Talking modulator sound.

Unfortunately, you cannot really accomplish this same trick in insertion effects because "Parallel" does not mean all elements feed into InsA AND InsB. They only feed into one or the other. And once you set the output level to 0 - you mute everything that's coming into this effect. Parallel would work better if you could choose "InsA + InsB" as an option. Parallel is only available for AWM2 and not FM. No matter - it doesn't buy you anything here.

I guess if you had enough elements to burn within a single Part you could run say 4 elements into InsA (not Talking Modulator) then run the next 4 into InsB and use parallel. You could either use this similar to the Part Mute suggestion (only silence half of the elements to pick with and without talking modulator) or any other method to ensure only one half of the elements are playing vs the other (or one half - only the non talking modulator ones and then all 8 so both effects are heard).

 
Posted : 28/11/2022 9:21 pm
Darryl
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Thanks Jason, that confirms what I thought was the case. I was trying to do this without burning a second PART 🙁 ...as I have to fit 11 different PART sounds into the 8 KBD CTRL PARTs as it is.

And several of them are FM-X, which takes away some potential options that AWM2 PARTs have, such as XA Control & Parallel Ins effects. The PART I am looking to switch the Ins effect On/Off is an FM-X PART, so I would need to either duplicate it as you suggest (which is not an option due to PART real-estate issues), or what I will end up doing, which is to find a close enough AWM2 sound/Element for use with the Talking Modulator effect via 'Parallel' effects, and add it to one of the AWM2 PARTs with the Element Connect set to InsA while the other elements are set to InsB. And then use either Volume Asigns ("Output Level" in this case), or combined with Scene changes use Velocity Limit settings &/or Note Limit splits, or Aftertouch to bring in the additional Elements... This will allow me to add in ALL the extra sounds that are AWM2 based.

I could free up one PART between 9 - 16 and move that AWM2 Element to another PART, but would prefer not to automate playing this particular Talking Modulator effect based sound via sequencing and play it under KBD CTRL. I was just hoping to automate via sequencing or have an easy way to turn the Talking Modulator effect on at a particular point. In the end all 16 PARTs will be utilized between the sequencing and the ones I play. Basically, I am doing a Queen medley that includes many of their hits, including Radio Ga Ga, which by itself could almost use all 16, but definitely will utilize all of PARTs 1 - 8 lol

 
Posted : 29/11/2022 2:08 pm
Jason
Posts: 7905
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If you analyze your Part usage vs. the needs of different sections of the tune - you may find there are natural "breaks" where you could switch between one Performance and another in order to switch out your sounds instead of using keyboard control or mute or an assignable switch to switch between sounds.

During this Tech Talk, Manuele Montesanti plays a tune where he has many live set slots (different Performances) where different sections of the song are entire Performances.
https://youtu.be/t3lG2tev0hY?t=205

How you build these sections depends on the context of what needs to be happening in that "void" when switching Performances. If SSS works and can bridge - that's an option. Or sometimes there's no need since other instruments are filling the void. This void tends to be only an eighth note or so. And you can't keep motion sequences or ARPs running (from the previous Performance) even if SSS does work. That said - with attention to when and where you switch Performances - you can end up saving lots of Parts by splitting up a tune.

I did this a lot more in the past. Now I usually decide to make a given Part play double duty and not have different sounds for everything I would want. A close enough sound will serve a section of the tune where I would normally have switched out to a slightly different one. Rearranging, if you will, for the resources.

For Montage ...

There may be things you can do with Assign L&R out routed both to a mixer (and out mains) and then also fed back to A/D input. The A/D input could have its own insertion effects so that can be your "wet". You would have to leave your dry signal on the entire time but could overlay the talking modulator on demand. It's a bit much to setup in the way of external gear - but it's a possibility if dry+wet is OK vs full wet talking modulator. It's sort of similar (in result) to using variation without having to consume variation with the role of the talking modulator.

 
Posted : 29/11/2022 2:54 pm
Darryl
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Topic starter
 

Thanks Jason. Although it would have been nice to free up that extra KBD CTRL PART, I figured out how I could get the 11 part sounds within the 8 KBD CTRL PARTs (actually 12 sounds since I can't really automate turning On/Off the Talking Modulator effect) using Scene changes, Element Velocity Limit settings, Note Limit splits, Aftertouch, etc. to bring in the additional Elements/sounds to using two AWM2 PARTs. And the way I have the medley laid out, it's easier to just keep the sequencing within a single Performance, as all the switching between songs is quite quick & seamless, and easiest just to change sound combinations via Scenes, splits, etc.

It just would have been a bit easier/quicker & less wasteful if I could have utilized that same FM-X PART as both a regular pad & then later as a pad with the Talking Modulator effect on it... But I will find a suitable AWM2 pad sound with the Talking Modulator effect via Parallel effects, setting the Element Connect to InsA for that Element sound, while the other Elements are set to InsB. I was almost certain that there wasn't a way to automate turning On/Off Ins Effects, but thought it couldn't hurt to find out if there were any possible workarounds 😉

 
Posted : 29/11/2022 5:05 pm
Darryl
Posts: 783
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[quotePost id=119598]SysEx is not always an option but it can do the job. And all it takes in the shareware MIDI-OX and one command ready to go for you to hit 'Send'. Page 207 of the Data List shows what you need:

F0 43 10 7F 1C 07 31 02 26 02 F7

[/quotePost]
I've never dug that deep into SysEx or MIDI with the Montage. I'm not even sure how that could be set exactly (shareware MIDI-OX and commands)..!? Is it set & saved within the Montage, or via DAW SysEx app, or DAW Pro Tools sequencing, or another external device? Once set & saved in a Performance (if that's even possible), would it work on the Montage on stage (stand alone) with no other devices connected, or would it require other devices to play live on stage in addition to the Montage?

I always try to keep it as simple as possible. One synth/device, one stand, one Performance per song... And if it's a Performance/sequencing programming thing, I try to keep it simple there as well... 😉

 
Posted : 29/11/2022 5:17 pm
Jason
Posts: 7905
Illustrious Member
 

MIDI files can send SysEx so you could have the audition button send one command and the MIDI player (link Performance with "song" ) play the other. This at least takes a PC out of the equation. It's not something that can be automated with motion sequence however.

Using a system effect (instead of insertion) gets you there if you can reassign variation. This would be something you could turn on/off with a motion sequence if you wanted.

Using multiple parts or different elements within a single Part you can turn on/off the elements you want using motion sequence by targeting level. You've got to start possibly worrying about polyphony if your layering is stacked high since using this method will have even the silent elements/operators/Parts consume polyphony. Not as bad if you're dealing with FM-X and AWM2 mixed since each has its own pool.

Not that you asked, but ...

Remember if you want your motion sequence to start only within a certain note range then arpeggio sync'd (triggered) motion sequences are required. It's a chain of events where the arpeggio itself can be restricted to a given note range then when the arpeggio starts it triggers the motion sequence. A byproduct of this is that you get to define the range of keys that trigger motion sequence indirectly. It's the only way to do this.

 
Posted : 29/11/2022 7:58 pm
Darryl
Posts: 783
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks Bill, I get it now 😉
Yeah, definitely not something I would do in this particular case...

 
Posted : 29/11/2022 8:27 pm
Darryl
Posts: 783
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

[quotePost id=119605]MIDI files can send SysEx so you could have the audition button send one command and the MIDI player (link Performance with "song" ) play the other. This at least takes a PC out of the equation. It's not something that can be automated with motion sequence however.[/quotePost]
Ironically I have an Ideascale idea to fix the delay in the Audition button, as I had to press early at just the right time when starting sequencing on a song 1/3 way into it. Since they added Song links to Performances in Live Set, I have not used the Audition button.

Using a system effect (instead of insertion) gets you there if you can reassign variation. This would be something you could turn on/off with a motion sequence if you wanted.

Unfortunately I am using Variation for an effect on several instruments, so that would not work in this case. I did think of that option though...

Using multiple parts or different elements within a single Part you can turn on/off the elements you want using motion sequence by targeting level. You've got to start possibly worrying about polyphony if your layering is stacked high since using this method will have even the silent elements/operators/Parts consume polyphony. Not as bad if you're dealing with FM-X and AWM2 mixed since each has its own pool.

I always add a balance of FM-X & AWM2 PARTs in Performances that are PART & Sequencing heavy like this one. I also try to utilize Splits and Velocity Limit settings over increasing 0 volume elements/operators to ensure polyphony is as efficient as possible.

Thanks!

 
Posted : 29/11/2022 8:44 pm
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