In the Fantom it is possible to store the song with the scene. This has been requested for the Montage but is not there (yet?). Something similar is possible with the audtions but the workflow to get there is quite ... involved.

The Montage has the scene buttons which can be used to change quite a few settings between scenes. Like ARPs, volumes, effect settings, super knob settings and much more. It does not allow to store the key control state, though.

The Fantom allows the Pads to be used for a similar purpose. I think it only allows to store the key control state, though, nothing else. Both would be ideal :D. And if you use the Pads for that it is a global setting, so they cannot be used for anything else like triggering samples.

In the Montage the parts are stored with the performances. So if you edit a part which is part of a performance and then store the performance, the changed part is stored with the performance. In the Fantom the zone (roughly equivalent to a part) stores only some parameters like transpose etc. The rest like waveforms, envelopes, filters comes from a tone which is referenced from the zone and not stored with the scene (equivalent to a performance). So if you want to change a tone you have to store the tone so that later the changes are audible when switching to a scene. Those tone changes are shared with all scenes using the same tone. So if you want to change only the tone used in that one scene, you have to store it to a new tone and change the tone referenced by the scene.

While this sounds complicated, it means that deep editing the sound inside a performance is easier in the Montage. You cannot accidentally destroy other performances or lose changes in a tone. Both things happened to me in the Integra-7 which has the same concept.

On the other hand the Fantom concept is more traditional and may be easier to grasp for some people. Also if you want to edit a tone which is shared between multiple performances and actually want to affect all performances you can easily do that on the Fantom. This is impossible on the Montage, you have to apply the changes manually to all performances.

I personally much prefer the Montage way after working with the Integra-7 for a couple of years. But other may prefer the alternative.

Not entirely true, the Fantom has some offset settings where you do not have to alter the original tone for basic things like attack, decay, release, cutoff, resonance and so on. So you can use a tone then alter those settings in your scene without having to save another version of the tone.

Not entirely true, the Fantom has some offset settings where you do not have to alter the original tone for basic things like attack, decay, release, cutoff, resonance and so on. So you can use a tone then alter those settings in your scene without having to save another version of the tone.

Yes, that's correct. It's similar to what the Integra had. But for me it was too limited ok most cases. Still it makes things a bit easier!

Some of you are blatantly grasping at straws here. The shortcomings of the brand-new Fantom are easy to add with software updates, which many insiders have said are coming in droves. Within a year it will crush everything in it's class. Saying Roland has a history of not adding firmware updates is complete bullshit, and sounds like the ramblings of a jealous child. I own a Montage, but I have no problem admitting there is a much better choice available now, and I 100% will be owning it.

Fantom is the new KING- you have no choice but to bend the knee.

Well i just think Fantom and Montage are just great Synths... i would like to get them both :p

Well i just think Fantom and Montage are just great Synths... i would like to get them both :p

Agreed 😀 . For now I cancelled the Fantom order until they integrate proper multi-sampling. But this thread is useful for those who want to decide between the two.

Saying Roland has a history of not adding firmware updates is complete bull****, and sounds like the ramblings of a jealous child.

That's one opinion.

I think it's responsible to introduce skepticism for promised future development. One has to take this sort of thing with a grain of salt from Roland or any other company. Making purchases based on what's not in the product - and banking that something you need will be updated in a future update - is discouraged. Reports of Roland's history comes from dedicated Roland users on Roland support forums. This isn't meant to be mud slinging - but fairly unbiased accounts from Roland users themselves.

Yamaha has their moments as well. At one point Yamaha suggested a future update for compatibility with WXC/LPC waveforms. That did not materialize and has since been backed-out. Many promised items did materialize - but that one stands out as an exception to the rule.

Montage lets you save a performance with fx edits and all no problem. The Fantom requires you to save an individual tone (part) with fx changes first and then save the scene (performance). Otherwise you will lose any effects changes you made. With only 512 user save slots that pretty dumb IMO.

Fantom has some dedicated knobs for items which are typically "deep edit" items. Cutoff, Resonance, A/D/S/R, patch select. Montage you can assign different assignable knobs for some of this - but Fantom's more dedicated knobs integrate a bit differently with how different sounds can be selected to apply to their fixed-function knobs. Slightly more "dynamic" than Montage's approach for these functions.

This is very significant for synth tweakers. The functions are logically grouped and labeled, and consistent from patch to patch. The buttons that let you switch the ADSR from pitch to amp to filter mean that those 4 knobs actually have the functions of 12 knobs. Yes, you could assign these things to assignable knobs on the Montage, but once you assign the 12 envelope controls, the filter cutoff/resonance, and some of the other dedicated controls of that section, you'll have pretty much used up the 8 available knobs and 8 available sliders on the Montage. On the Fantom, you have all those controls all the time, without using up any of those other knobs and sliders, leaving them free for still other functions. So between that and the fact that it includes a real VA engine, plus the real analog filter that I don't think has been mentioned, the Fantom would seem to have greater appeal to the traditional synth folks.

Fantom has more aux audio outs. Helpful for click track and other uses. One extra output compared to Montage.

Worth noting, it's an additional stereo output. So you have a total of 4 channels of assignable output, vs. 2.

One more Fantom advantage I don't think has been mentioned... yes, as mentioned, you can mix-and-match up to 16 internal sounds to be played from the internal keys instead of 8, but also, you can play up to 16 external sounds instead of the 8 supported by Yamaha's zone master function.

One more point in Yamaha's favor that I haven't seen mentioned is that a single instrument sound can have many more component pieces. Yamaha supports 8 Elements per Part; and the concept of multi-part single instruments means that, for example, a four part instrument could have 32 elements. A single recallable instrument on the Roland consists of a max of just 4 Partials (their equivalent to elements).

And my favorite Yamaha advantage: You can get the bulk of the Montage's sounds and capabilities in a MODX that costs and weighs far less! 😉

The Fantom requires you to save an individual tone (part) with fx changes first and then save the scene (performance).

Sort of true. The tone contains one effect (MFX). The other effects are not part of the tone. IFX1, IFX2, Chorus, Reverb, Master Comp.

So, yes, there's one effect that's tied to the tone - but most of the effects are not and are outside of the tone.

Overall, there's less flexibility since - to compare to Montage - it's like you have one insertion effect and then 4 system effects. The master effect (Master EQ+Master Comp) in Fantom is more limited. Just compression and EQ. Montage's master effects stage has EQ and also compression, delay, spiralizer, bit crusher, and more. Fantom's non-tone effects: IFX1, IFX2, Chorus, and Reverb are all shared across all zones - so it's like you have more system effects in Fantom. How flexible this arrangement is depends on the number of tones you use - but overall is less flexible than having more effects at the individual "tone" (PART) level. I haven't reviewed what the 90 effects are on the Fantom. It's possible that there are many "multi effects" that equate to combining two of Montage's insertion effects. Someone can dig more deeply into this. Fantom has a less than 30 "multi effects". I would say not quite as flexible as Montage even with a collection of multi-effects.

Regarding ADSR, filter/cutoff knobs ...

This is very significant for synth tweakers.

The 6 knobs (that have built-in buttons) under the touchscreen on Fantom are also great for real-time control. They assume different roles depending on what you have selected - but can also tweak/shape the sound. For V-pianos I believe the 1st knob is generally how open the piano lid is. And others have generally standard assignments for their presets depending on the type of sound loaded.

Montage's approach was to, for the most part, ditch too many buttons that interact with the touchscreen and rely on the touchscreen itself. There are a few exceptions - like using sliders to adjust custom user curve step values (or inflection points for linear curve). So sometimes the sliders interact with the touchscreen. And data dial, inc/dec, cursor keys do - but those are not really built for real-time tweaking of synth sounds. They're more for editing in the studio when you're programming. Fantom's choice to throw more knobs at the interface provides more real-time control over different things. It does provide more choices for future engines (even if they never come) and also provide more useful controllers when using as a master to VSTi slaves (or even other keyboards).

Pivoting to the expression pedals - Fantom has 3 combo switch/expression-pedal jacks while Montage has 2 expression pedal jacks plus a footswitch jack. Fantom is more flexible as it allows for more footswitches at once. The functions of these switches can include going to the next or previous "performance" (scene). Alternatively, standard 3-pedal (damper, sostenuto, soft) can be used and still have an open port for expression. Damper in both keyboards is fixed-function so damper was not previously listed in the port count. The addition of more foot switches overall gives Fantom more flexibility - something which has been requested by Montage users (inc + dec, or sostenuto).

Montage lets you save a performance with fx edits and all no problem. The Fantom requires you to save an individual tone (part) with fx changes first and then save the scene (performance). Otherwise you will lose any effects changes you made. With only 512 user save slots that pretty dumb IMO.

Incorrect, in the Fantom you can have offset values for most used tweaks eg cutoff, resonance and amp envelope settings which can be tweaked without altering the original tone. The only effect that is tied to the tone is the MFX the other effects (IFX1, IFX2, reverb, and chorus) are tied to the scene. This means the tone will be the same when you bring it into the scene. If you tweak the sound more than the offset settings then yes you save a new version of it, but not always a bad thing as then it doesn;t effect other sounds that use the tone you changed.

I really like the Fantom architecture, we are all different, but so far I am loving programming the F6, its a breeze to program. I still have a MODX which will become a backup board, but the Fantom does sound extremely good....

I think I just didnt word it correctly. Yes the tone must be resaved if you change the MFX setting otherwise when you load the scene that contains the scene the old MFX will still be there. People need to know how this affects things. +1 Yamaha for not doing this on the Montage. But i understand why it is the way it is on Roland products.

Still we have no real details on modulation comparison