Hallo,

in Germany most of the dealers take 3.499,- € for a Montage 7 (about 4.100 UK)
I found a B-Stock Montage 7 for 3.089,-€

I would be very very careful with this offer

Thank you. I have verified the seller's purchase from a music shop and it was a genuine sale.

What else should I look for?

Hello Adrian - who knows? There are no known fault issues with Montage, unless it fell off the back of a lorry. I paid £2,900 for mine last August,(new from a dealer), and I'd do it again. I lost interest in Gumtree when the seller of a cheap Tyros 3 wanted to do the deal in a pub car-park for cash. It looks like you've been very lucky! I would say you have to stick at it - Montage is a very devious machine, but it repays the effort.

Deals do come up now and then.

Run through the menus - make sure the touch screen is responsive and full screen can be seen - just make sure there are not any missing portions from damage to the screen or issues with the touch not being responsive in an area or areas of the screen.

Move all the faders up and down - make sure the LEDs follow each fader. If you have experience with yamaha keyboards - you know already you have to swipe all the way up then all the way down before making sure the LED is "caught" by the fader before the two will be in sync.

Do the same with the knobs above the faders - the LEDs should follow the knob position. Turn the superknob back and forth - make sure the LED follows.

For knobs - make sure you go past when the LED stops by a 1/4 turn or so, then start going in the other direction. Because you want to test the full 360 of the encoders.

Move the mod wheel and pitch wheel. Are they fluid? Look at them as they move - are they on-axis and straight? Should be. Or wobbly and crooked? Shouldn't be.

See if the ribbon (area under the pitch/mod wheels) is working. You'll have to mill around to find a performance that uses it. If you press [LIVE SET] and make sure the listing (upper-left corner) is showing "Bank - Preset" (there's not a dash, it's on the next line) then this has a list of "favorite" demo performances. Pick "Seattle Sections" to test the ribbon because it's obvious with this performance. The ribbon should sound like you're glissando'ing up and down the fingerboard (wild pitch changes). When you let go of the ribbon (hands off) - the pitch automatically "snaps" (resets) to normal, non-altered pitch.

Press the [UTILITY] button and mill around until you find the firmware version. Not the latest v1.51? Ask if you can update and bring a USB 2.0 4GB (or less) stick with you that has nothing but the *.PGM firmware file in the root directory of the stick. Lookup how to do an update when you get there and see how well it works. Sometimes it takes a few tries. Don't call foul if it doesn't work - but it may provide a discussion point if it doesn't.

Look at the keybed. I like to look straight into the keys so I can see the horizontal plane of the keys as a straight line (or hope to see a straight line). If the keyboard was setup on a stand, I'd have to crouch down to get eye level with the keys and look side-to-side looking for if one is raised or lowered vs. the line of all the rest of the keys. For me from the factory, the highest "G" key was a little low - I can feel this also by running my finger lightly from lowest white key to highest back and forth looking for any keys that "catch" (because they're too high or low). Black keys I usually don't look as closely at - but you can look for anything that's crazy out.

Turn the sound (volume slider) all the way down. Press each key down (individually) to its resting/stopping position then "wiggle" the key slightly left and right. Any "loose teeth"? Shouldn't be. Can also sense relative force for the keys, etc.

For white keys, press the very back (near the "middle" of Montage) of the keys. This is behind where the black and white keys "come out" of Montage - and place where if you press your finger will travel the least distance in order to make the key go all the way down. Use 4 fingers to make as many white keys go down as possible to the resting position. Look at the position - all the same? Should be all in a "line" in the down position just like what you were looking for in the up position. Move your way through all the white keys.

Back to the preset "Live Set" ([LIVE SET] button) - now pick "Turn It On" - with the volume back up. This performance uses aftertouch. Go to the highest key and press it lightly (high "G") - you should hear kind of a high pitched "noise" and a low pitched rumble. Now press down on the key harder - not lightly like you started. You should hear the high pitched noise change pitch (start to oscillate). That's the aftertouch working. Go through all the keys and make sure aftertouch is working on all them. It's harder to hear on the lower left-hand notes. So by the time you make it down to middle C, press the [OCTAVE +] button twice (it should be flashing). You should be going through white and black keys.

Press the [OCTAVE -] button two times to return back to normal. There's other ways to do this (pressing both at the same time resets back to normal).

Press [CATEGORY SEARCH] and use the DATA DIAL (the big black circle to the right of the touch screen) to move through the performances. Move it fast so the system doesn't slow you down updating all the settings because too slow and it will be loading each performance and its settings. Make sure the dial works in both directions. You can go slow too - but the system will get "jumpy" as it tries to load performances and this is normal.

Press all the buttons. Look for the brightness to change - but also respect that buttons have different modes and do not always respond if they're not supposed to. It's difficult to convey the rundown - but just press the [CATEGORY SEARCH] button, and all the buttons in the grid on the far right of the keyboard should change brightness when you touch them unless the search has too few performances on the screen to pick.

Pretty much all those buttons should be doing something. If a button doesn't do something - press the [EXIT] button, see if the button still doesn't do anything, then back to [CATEGORY SEARCH] try the button again.

Press the [SCENE] buttons (1-8). They're blue. Press all the buttons and look for a response - respecting you may have to load a different performance or be in a different menu screen - or have the keyboard otherwise in a different mode see the button work.

Bring a laptop and USB 2.0 "printer cable". Make sure Montage is recognized when plugged into your laptop. Maybe download Montage Connect from the net and see if that works in standalone mode. You need the latest firmware to make it work. Just recognizing Montage and being able to read the firmware version is probably enough to call this a passed test.

Bring earphones and make sure that works.

Test all outputs (main, assignable). Bring a mic and see if A/D input works. You have to turn on the A/D input button to make it illuminate and turn up the gain.

Some of this stuff may require some setup - not going to get into all that kind of detail.

Basically, do as much as you can to make sure the features you want to work are working and budget for some repairs if you end up finding out something later.

Chromatic scale on a piano performance listening for even volume (none too quiet or too loud).

Stand the keyboard on one of its sides, then - as if a rainstick - "flip" the keyboard over to the other side in a 2-step process. (first lay flat, then pick up the other side). Listen for rain-stick like pieces falling through the inside of the keyboard.

... and so on.

Hello Jason - Tehe! Well, Adrian did ask ... I can see the delivery driver standing there patiently while I did all that ...

OMG Jason, THAT was amazing

Thank you all so so much.

I have bought it and it all works fine. It was a refurb from Yamaha. I now need a proper tutorial from the experts as the manual is really too vague.

I am finding this so heavy to carry with it's case, so at some point I'd like to part exchange it for a Montage 6.

Thanks again

A

I have a 7 - it is pretty heavy. But I've also carried the 8 as well. That seems 3x heavier than the 7 - there's going to be less of a difference between the 6 and 7 - although every lbs. counts (or g. if that's your point of reference).

What kind of case is it? I have a soft case with decent padding that keeps it safe and I made sure to look at the case weight when I was selecting what to get. Obviously a hard case - if you were lucky enough to get one of those with the sale - is going to add some considerable heft to the keyboard. I've taken the Montage on quite a few gigs and countless rehearsals - in and out of a vehicle with other things occasionally "stacked" on top. No damage, scratches, gouges, or otherwise problems from using the soft case.

I've mentioned it before - but I really find the circular "scoop" on the back of Montage to be a nuisance when carrying. My instinct is to carry the keyboard with my hand "cupping" the rear of the keyboard (for any keyboard) with the keys facing "out" and bottom side (side that sits on a keyboard stand) of the keyboard facing my body. This is a natural way to carry the board because it is positioned best to swing around the front and use the other hand to grab the front of the keyboard and place it on the stand once the board reaches its destination. Other configurations of the keyboard and the board ends up the wrong direction on the stand or upside down requiring an extra step to re-position the keyboard before placing it on the stand or in its case.

... the problem is that the "scoop" is right there where my hand grabs the keyboard. So there's (almost) nothing to grab on to. If I could go back in time and talk to the mechanical team, I'd tell them to put the scoop on the bottom side so carrying the keyboard I'd grab a hold of the top non-scooped side and my fingers would wrap around to the scooped area. Or maybe if they "rounded out" an area near the center of gravity where my arm could "dig in" so my palm could rest in the "scoop" and by fingers wrap around to the bottom side of the keyboard - that'd be better. I find carrying the thing to be awkward and blame the scoop. I've also suggested maybe making a handle that pops out the front of the keyboard to allow to carry like a briefcase would be a way to solve it. That one is tough due to the shear forces on the handle and weights involved - but I'm sure something could be managed.

I've been involved with both administering and taking product usability studies where hardware was placed in front of average/beginner to expert users - a set of instructs (do this, do that) then report on how good/bad certain aspects were (1-10 scale). Sometimes competitive products are thrown into the mix as reference points. I think if Yamaha did a study of carrying a Montage vs. some of the other keyboards - they'd get useful feedback as to what could be improved.

Hi Jason, sorry I didn't check this forum for a few days.

I got a swan flightcase which in itself is 10 kgs and without castors. I'm looking to order the SKB mounded case as it's slightly lighter.

Have dived into my Montage and absolutely loving it.

Thank you again for the wonderful support and check list. The DETAILED check list was great.

*moulded

Jason wrote:
I've mentioned it before - but I really find the circular "scoop" on the back of Montage to be a nuisance when carrying. My instinct is to carry the keyboard with my hand "cupping" the rear of the keyboard (for any keyboard) with the keys facing "out" and bottom side (side that sits on a keyboard stand) of the keyboard facing my body. This is a natural way to carry the board because it is positioned best to swing around the front and use the other hand to grab the front of the keyboard and place it on the stand once the board reaches its destination. Other configurations of the keyboard and the board ends up the wrong direction on the stand or upside down requiring an extra step to re-position the keyboard before placing it on the stand or in its case.

... the problem is that the "scoop" is right there where my hand grabs the keyboard. So there's (almost) nothing to grab on to. If I could go back in time and talk to the mechanical team, I'd tell them to put the scoop on the bottom side so carrying the keyboard I'd grab a hold of the top non-scooped side and my fingers would wrap around to the scooped area. Or maybe if they "rounded out" an area near the center of gravity where my arm could "dig in" so my palm could rest in the "scoop" and by fingers wrap around to the bottom side of the keyboard - that'd be better. I find carrying the thing to be awkward and blame the scoop. I've also suggested maybe making a handle that pops out the front of the keyboard to allow to carry like a briefcase would be a way to solve it. That one is tough due to the shear forces on the handle and weights involved - but I'm sure something could be managed.

Someone on this forum linked to a video that contained workers (assuming designers and engineers) at the Yamaha company talking about Montage. They mostly talked about super knob and "music in motion" butttttttt, and I was flabbergasted when they said it (couldn't stop laughing).. One of them literally said that "the scoop is to redirect the audience energy up to the person playing the Montage".... so there you go!

Yeah, I previously commented on that and mentioned that the scoop would catch more energy if it was pointed downwards - since generally I'm up on stage and the audience is down below. The energy scoop is biased towards stadium players who can direct energy from the bleachers leaving us smaller club guys with no gas in our tanks.

The original "hearing crickets" post:

https://yamahasynth.com/forum/montage-ergonomics-critique-carrying-the-keyboard

Having carried this board to many gigs - and having to unpack/repack the keyboard in a case every gig/practice and back in the home studio - I've developed a "grudge" for this scoop in the back which Yamaha engineers have mentioned could harness audience energy.

On the more practical side - I do recognize that the circular-radius "scoop" along the back side of the keyboard does provide a place for the silkscreens of the ports - and does make connecting plugs easier. However, although "ugly" - the top face of the keyboard could have also been utilized to place these silkscreens.

I would rather the "scoop" be placed on the bottom half of the keyboard rather than top half. Here's the scenario:

1) I place my keyboard in the case with the keys facing UP - and keys furthest from the "hinge" of the case.
2) When getting the keyboard out of the case, I want to wrap my hand around the back of the keyboard - have the keys facing my arm (not my body) and hold the keyboard under my arm with my hand "grabbing" the back of the keyboard.

The issue is that the "scoop" makes it so I cannot really "grab on" to the back of the keyboard. I do not have Oscar Peterson hands - so I cannot grab all the way around to the back of the keyboard. If the "scoop" was the other way - I could grab on. Flipping the keyboard around and having the keys face my body does provide an easy way to "grab on". The problem is the keyboard in the case is not oriented this way for easily "lifting it out" that way.

I may need to develop a "bra" which would have some "belts" at each end of the keyboard and along the middle of the keyboard with a handle near the keyboard-keys side so I can "grab on" to this handle to transport the keyboard between the case and a stand. Usually the distance of perhaps 0-60 feet.

I've also "wished" there was maybe a handle that popped out of the front of the keyboard (near keys) that would allow me to carry the Montage as a luggage-like piece - again for the purpose of transporting from the case to the keyboard stand.

Overall, I would say that the ergonomics of carrying the Montage could be improved for those who have to do this several times a week and do not have hired hands to deal with this.

Also note that most of the time the stage is up high, audience is down low, so the scoop being on the bottom instead of the top would harness more audience energy (just trying to "sell" this thing from multiple angles).