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now these are some samples

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Too bad these sounds didnt make it into the Montage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q46Fcz4iHN8
Although I wonder if the samples we have can do it. I will have to try

 
Posted : 26/10/2022 1:49 pm
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Beautiful!

Can't help thinking a few Strymons might have played a role in the post processing that stretched and shimmered these. They're fantastic.

 
Posted : 26/10/2022 1:57 pm
Darryl
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Yeah those are some really great sounds.

I didn't hear any that I couldn't emulate quite closely on the Montage using either AWM2 with ARPs & Motion Sequencing, or in some instances FM-X would do the trick...some sounds I hear and immediately I realize it's in the FM-X realm and near impossible to do via a sample based engine...

 
Posted : 26/10/2022 3:27 pm
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[quotePost id=118974]Yeah those are some really great sounds.

I didn't hear any that I couldn't emulate quite closely on the Montage using either AWM2 with ARPs & Motion Sequencing, or in some instances FM-X would do the trick...some sounds I hear and immediately I realize it's in the FM-X realm and near impossible to do via a sample based engine...[/quotePost]

Amazing!

I can't get close to these without a Strymon or three and a wavetable synth, or three, too.

 
Posted : 26/10/2022 5:19 pm
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Want a challenge? LINK: Hallway Sound... this has gotta be some foley into a granular synth and/or wavetable synth, and then at least two different types of big reverb (better than those on the Montage/MODX):

 
Posted : 26/10/2022 5:35 pm
Darryl
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[quotePost id=118975]
Amazing!
I can't get close to these without a Strymon or three and a wavetable synth, or three, too.

[/quotePost]
I wouldn't go as far to call it amazing ... most of it is doable in the FM-X engine alone (likely some sounds would need multiple FM-X PARTs) Any programming I've done for the past 35+ years has been DX7 programming & no other analog or AWM2, etc. , so I'm more used to figuring out a way to get whatever sound I need via FM synthesis. Although I am catching onto the sample based...

 
Posted : 26/10/2022 8:21 pm
Darryl
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[quotePost id=118977]Want a challenge? LINK: Hallway Sound... this has gotta be some foley into a granular synth and/or wavetable synth, and then at least two different types of big reverb (better than those on the Montage/MODX):
[/quotePost]
Actually that one isn't too bad. There are a number of ways to approach it. At first I could hear all FM-X, maybe 3 PARTs and a couple of different reverbs and other effects. But I can hear a few sample based sounds that I've already found in the past while flipping through the waveforms and would just need to re-find those for some of the elements. Most times I'll go with quickest option and shape it to sound how I need it to. One trick I use is if there is a sound with a specific frequency(s), instead of doing the EQ sweeping band with a sharp Q trick, I'll put it through a spectral analyzer and see exactly what frequency(s), how much, how sharp, etc., in comparison to the sound elements (or operators) I am working with.

I actually find the reverbs on the Montage very high quality, especially the HD Hall and REV-X Hall if tweaked properly. The HD Hall, if set right, can sound nearly as good as a quality convolution reverb, I've found...

Then there's some really high quality useful gems in the PART Inserts effects, such as Reverse Reverb pushed to the max, while sending to the Common Reverb effect... I've yet to hear any effect on the Montage that is what I would consider low quality or cheap sounding...

I just realized you mentioned two different types of big reverb for the Hallway Sound. I'd likely use the Reverse Reverb + HD Hall, and likely both quite heavily.

 
Posted : 26/10/2022 8:40 pm
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[quotePost id=118986]
I actually find the reverbs on the Montage very high quality, especially the HD Hall and REV-X Hall if tweaked properly. The HD Hall, if set right, can sound nearly as good as a quality convolution reverb, I've found...
[/quotePost]

I'm a sound cork sniffer, and have tried my darnedest with the reverbs on the MODX/Montaage, but even when smearing one with another, and using chorus and delay to help out, they're still craptastic, at best.

Perhaps I've been spoilt by guitar pedals.

*** I'm talking about big, long, delicious reverbs, like heard in the best sounds in the above linked Kontakt presets/samples. There are quite a few bread and butter atmosphere/mood sounds in this set, and then there are some that are probably not possible on the Montage/MODX, precisely because the effects and filters aren't up to it, no matter how hard FM-X is tweaked to create the underlying timbre/sound.

 
Posted : 26/10/2022 8:54 pm
Darryl
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[quotePost id=118989]
I'm a sound cork sniffer, and have tried my darnedest with the reverbs on the MODX/Montaage, but even when smearing one with another, and using chorus and delay to help out, they're still craptastic, at best.

Perhaps I've been spoilt by guitar pedals.

*** I'm talking about big, long, delicious reverbs, like heard in the best sounds in the above linked Kontakt presets/samples. There are quite a few bread and butter atmosphere/mood sounds in this set, and then there are some that are probably not possible on the Montage/MODX, precisely because the effects and filters aren't up to it, no matter how hard FM-X is tweaked to create the underlying timbre/sound.
[/quotePost]
I've also been around guitar pedal reverbs/effects and some of them are great. For 40 years my brother, who has played guitar in our band, also likes to sniff cork and he has always gone with the top line guitar pedals. But even he agrees with me that he is just used to the sound of those pedals and for professional grade sounds/recordings, the Montage reverbs & effects are equally as good or even more killer than his pedals.
I also have the Spectrasonics Omnisphere software synth (same as Simon Franglen uses ... i.e. Avatar movie score), as well as all the Waves Diamond Bundles plugin effects for Pro Tools + their IR1 Convolution Reverb with samples from the Sydney Oprah House & many other world class acoustic locations. I've used the Omnisphere sounds and Waves effects on everything in all my recordings...until I bought the Montage. Now I don't need to use Omnisphere, and only use Waves reverbs/effects for vocals, guitars and mastering. I use only the Montage effects now for all synth recorded stuff, and it sounds totally awesome to my ears. And having heard/used the effects plugins that I have in Pro Tools, I might be biased, but I think I have pretty good ears & experience with pro level effects/synths/sounds to make comparisons with the Montage/effects...

I think this little experiment I did a while back, whereby I took a plain dry craptastic FM-X sound and just added some Montage effects/mostly Reverbs to make it sound better, turned out great & sounds pretty awesome IMHO!
https://soundcloud.com/dclowe/montage-shimmer

In this recording at 0:06, all the synth sounds heard (except for the intro synth & any drums) are FM-X PARTs using HD Hall & Reverse Reverb. The intro synth sound, the bass & kick (when they come in at 0:13) have the Wave Folder effect on them, as well as other onboard effects. To my ears the effects make the dry voices sound professional level awesome IMO...
https://soundcloud.com/dclowe/montage-justin-bieber-intentions

Like I said above, I know I can emulate any of the sounds on that video very closely using the Montage, as good as what I hear in that video, but for many of the sounds I can make them sound even better & bigger on the Montage... I might need to use a combination of AWM2 & FM-X for some of them, but many of them are doable via the FM-X engine alone. I think the reverbs on the Montage when tweaked right are massive, huge and lush IHMO

So let's just agree to disagree on the Montage Reverbs then, as well as the Montage being able to emulate the sounds in that video... It's ok to have different opinions and not agree on everything! 😉

 
Posted : 27/10/2022 2:50 am
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I think our interests in music are so different that we're hearing different things... I like tech music, a LOT.

However, there's magic in the remnants of the analogue world, and this is carefully captured in these samples and their processing.

But even in modern digital gear, things like the effects on the Novation Summit/Peak are in an entirely different league to anything on the MODX/Montage.

It's not close, when trying to make techie/digitally/electronic inspired stuff. I hear you, pop music like Bieber, rock and roll, guitar music etc... there's no need for the kinds of exquisite reverbs I'm talking about... like Strymons, Eventide etc. There's not even enough space in a pop song to warm up these kinds of bad boys, let alone stretch their legs. And that's before we consider the options for stacking reverb plugins and post processing.

Some examples I think are extremely difficult to get even close to on the Montage/MODX (and I'm most seriously suggesting you not even try, as the Montage/MODX are simply not the tools for this kind of work)...

In many of the sounds in this preset pack, there's probably quite a lot of granular and wavetable going on to get those little grizzles and then amazing use of some truly epic reverbs to tease and stretch these out, and then masterful balancing, spreading, EQ'ing and compression. I mean shit, some of these are LOUD, and GOOD!

eg...

https://youtu.be/q46Fcz4iHN8?t=103 :: sun rising between mountains:
There’s no way the second half of this (higher chords) could be done as it is here, on the Montage/MODX.. if it were, it would have been done, and led to sales going through the roof

https://youtu.be/q46Fcz4iHN8?t=145 :: Aerial overview of snow covered mountains:
The basic timbres of this should be within FM’s realm, but exquisite filter dynamic responses, of the filter, to what sounds like aftertouch control inputs, simply isn’t possible with the filters onboard the Montage/MODX, regardless of what’s used to create the movement, even if you could get control of the cutoff in this way...

https://youtu.be/q46Fcz4iHN8?t=181 :: Water Drops
No way to get even close to what the oscillating filter is doing here on the MODX/Montage. This requires exponential shaped curved animations of the filter cutoff, at rates that alias on the Montage/MODX, and the filter to be beautiful and the essence of its timbre of … filtering, to be epically organic sounding

https://youtu.be/q46Fcz4iHN8?t=308 :; trains in a desert
No way possible without samples made for this. And, I think, the vocal sound of this… needs that Formant filtering on wind instrument samples that are highly opinionated, and another filter with a beautiful resonance that’s able to spark a fantastic reverb such that the tonalities and timbres of the “wind instrument” isn’t lost. This is probably my second favourite sound from this set.

https://youtu.be/q46Fcz4iHN8?t=366 what looks like discarded solar panels
This is my favourite sound in this set. It’s hauntingly beautiful how it moves and is alive, yet loaded with both melancholy and the intimidation of baleful sirens

https://youtu.be/q46Fcz4iHN8?t=418 window wiper
No way any of the Montage/MODX reverbs are getting close to this, would have to try to make it with releases/decays under control, which would probably not have the necessary initial drop. Would take a LOT of parts to come close to this, I think.
— the next sound, with the cutoff oscillating and the suspension bridge at night, that “cutoff” movement and searing probably possible with the FM-X operators acting as filters, but there’s noway to replicate the reverb that’s grabbing the result and do that beautiful shimmer/tail on the Montage.

https://youtu.be/q46Fcz4iHN8?t=499 :: Overhead of grain silos
Perhaps another example of why Formant filtering is much more generally useful than just voices. And great reverbs grabbing the result

https://youtu.be/q46Fcz4iHN8?t=680 :: Ocean at night
Next four are super loud/full in a great way, a way that there’s no way to do this onboard a Montage/MODX, needs post processing for the blends of such opinionated sounds and their dominance of the headroom. Someone knows what they’re doing with compression and EQ’ing, far beyond my abilities even with plugins

 
Posted : 27/10/2022 4:32 am
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Hi Daryl,

If you can make the sounds from the video I uploaded then please share on Soundmondo. Just share one sound that that mimics it exactly. How about at 3.46? I could use that one. of 6.45 or 9.50. In fact there's only 150 sounds I think so maybe make all of them and post. thanks

 
Posted : 27/10/2022 11:21 am
Darryl
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[quotePost id=118999]I think our interests in music are so different that we're hearing different things... I like tech music, a LOT.
However, there's magic in the remnants of the analogue world, and this is carefully captured in these samples and their processing.
But even in modern digital gear, things like the effects on the Novation Summit/Peak are in an entirely different league to anything on the MODX/Montage. [/quotePost]
I'm sure we are miles apart on interests in music. I do however love cool synth parts in any music, including all the sounds in the video you posted. And I respectively disagree that the Montage is not in the same league as the effects on the Novation Summit/Peak. I think there may be effects you might not have tried or played around with enough possibly, especially certain Reverbs that are hidden gems on the Montage.

It's not close, when trying to make techie/digitally/electronic inspired stuff. I hear you, pop music like Bieber, rock and roll, guitar music etc... there's no need for the kinds of exquisite reverbs I'm talking about... like Strymons, Eventide etc. There's not even enough space in a pop song to warm up these kinds of bad boys, let alone stretch their legs. And that's before we consider the options for stacking reverb plugins and post processing.

I can't totally agree with that either. In the Bieber sound there are a few sounds that required massive reverbs, but maybe not as easily heard being more in the background with all the other sounds playing...
But the Montage does have great reverbs that will do techie/digitally/electronic inspired stuff quite awesomely IMHO...

Some examples I think are extremely difficult to get even close to on the Montage/MODX (and I'm most seriously suggesting you not even try, as the Montage/MODX are simply not the tools for this kind of work)...
In many of the sounds in this preset pack, there's probably quite a lot of granular and wavetable going on to get those little grizzles and then amazing use of some truly epic reverbs to tease and stretch these out, and then masterful balancing, spreading, EQ'ing and compression. I mean shit, some of these are LOUD, and GOOD!

I can more than get close to those examples/sounds and likely surpass them with the Montage. If I had the time, I wouldn't just try, I would emulate those examples and either make them razor sharp close or surpass them. Including the reverbs...
Besides layering the right reverbs with the right settings on the Montage, part of the trick with some of the sounds & getting the reverbs to sound even better is to have a PART or Element or Operator (if FM-X) drop fast with a short release while the reverb continues on, along with other PARTs/Elements/Operators still playing...
Maybe you haven't played around and tweaked the right effects, especially Reverbs on the Montage!?
For PART inserts try Reverse Reverb or Early Reflection (or both), and send to the Space Simulator common Reverb...

I took a quick listen to the examples you posted and made a few notes on them (see below). You put labels on them based on what's in the video at the time, but just to be sure that I listened to the correct one, I added the name of the patch in (brackets).
Bottom line is that I know I can emulate every one of them and make the reverbs/everything sound as massive, lush, and with the shimmer detail equal to or better than any of those on the video via the Montage...and some of those are quite good, so I may even create one I thinks fits/sounds good in a song at some point!

________________________________

sun rising between mountains (03 Downs ?)
That one is farely basic and I can emulate it no problem on the Montage.

Aerial overview of snow covered mountains (09 Interior Sapce ?)
Thats realtively easy too using the right LFO setting or Motion Sequencing, add Symphonic and Reverb effects (both Reverse Reverb + send to HD Hall or more likely the Space Simulator Reverb). I hear basic timed swelling which pretty much any synth can do. There are several layered sounds waving in here and there.

Water Drops (06 skimming ?)
Easy on the Montage. I just selected a random Performance under 'Pad/Choir' to check what effects, LFO settings, etc. might be used, and stumbled across the Performance "Ethereal". Not a bad place to start for part of the source sound if I decided to use AWM2 PART(s). Right beside that Performance is "Ocean Pad", also a good place to possibly find core sounds for this or other sounds...
The fast modulations could most likely be done using the Squ1/4 LFO (or more likely a 'custom' LFO) & Cutoff with the right speed and depth.
Could also use Motion Sequencing, setting the correct pulses (possibly resonance shape or a custom one) & possbily with reverse direction, against a slow swelling filter or effect parameter or just add a second sequence Lane. There are at least 2 or 3 elements or FM sounds swelling in & out at different rates. Possibly add Symphonic or Pitch Change + possibly a Phase or slow swell effect.
It might even just need the right Slice or Tech Modulaltion or Ring Modulator effects. Add both Reverse Reverb (or Early Reflection) + send to HD Reverb or Space Simulator Reverb, whichever works best...

trains in a desert (16 ord ?)
That one sounds quite easy. Possibly start with the right violin strings with slow attack & a resonance type effect on it, maybe Harmonic Enhancer effect set to Mid Edge as a starting point, with some Early Reflection reverb and other reverbs layered. Layer sounds on top such as an element or two from the Trombones Swell Performance with the right resonance type or Harmonic Enhancer effect.
Also maybe a subtle layer of Vox Noise, Digital Wind or SabreTone with with a more knife edge cut EQ or effect on it...also with some Early Reflection reverb and other reverbs layered.
Or I could do the same with 2 or 3 FM parts. A strings PART, Trombone and easily find the knife edge cut sounds with some wind like sound...FM-X's bread & butter. And slap the right/similar effects on these...

what looks like discarded solar panels (60 Sophomore ?)
That could be done in either or a combination of both engines. A horn-like sound(s) (possibly 2 of them layered with different randomized swelling effects) with randomized resonation &/or level swells (Squ1/4 maybe) + a slow subtle Pitch LFO on it. Either custom LFO, Motion sequencing or one other many effects that can do this. Or combinations of two of these. Add the right Harmonic Enhancer or Wave Folder effect + maybe Symphonic, and huge Reverse Reverb + Space Simulator Reverb. Also possibly add Early Reflection Variation effect.

window wiper (21 badlands ?)
I disagree on the Reverbs, I can emulate that. I'd just need to find the right 2 or 3 base sounds, some of them dark sounding with a dark subtle wave/wind added, or just use effects to make them dark sounding, including the right cutoff settings, then figure out the modulations/motions sequencing perhaps, with delay &/or the Pitch Change effect as a delay, plus Symphonic &/or other effects, and probably soke it in both Reverse Reverb (or Early Reflection) + Space Simulator Reverb with the right inital delay & other parameters set.

Overhead of grain silos (21 balm ?)
I could easily emulate that one with a couple of FM-X PARTs, the right slow pitch LFO or other modulation, and a combination of reverbs, possibly the the Pitch Change effect.

Ocean at night (38 MOSSI ?)
That's doable in either AWM2 or FM-X Parts/effects.

 
Posted : 27/10/2022 3:50 pm
Darryl
Posts: 783
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[quotePost id=119007]Hi Daryl,

If you can make the sounds from the video I uploaded then please share on Soundmondo. Just share one sound that that mimics it exactly. How about at 3.46? I could use that one. of 6.45 or 9.50. In fact there's only 150 sounds I think so maybe make all of them and post. thanks[/quotePost]

Don't tempt me Frodo :p
That's actually a great one and I can see me possibly using it in a song somewhere, so I am quite tempted, but I have a few things I'm working on that I need to finish first...not sure how long before I would even be able to work on sound like that.

If I do end up doing that one, I will likely make it even better sounding, with slightly better sounds & reverb/effects instead.

 
Posted : 27/10/2022 4:06 pm
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When it comes to making pasta sauces, there are basic recipes and ingredients that can be followed and mimicked, and there's basic processes and techniques to get a result that's different from the norm, and then there's significant differences between what we think is the base of a dish versus the authentic best.

For example, it's objectively impossible to come close to great carbonara sauces with all the cremes of the world. It's eggs that are needed, instead.

If you can't hear the objective superiority of good reverbs vs the very best tweaking of the very best of the onboard Yamaha reverbs, then we really are hearing two different worlds. I'm an arpist, not a player, so effects and their (ab)use are my wheelhouse when planted at a keyboard. They're the sauces for my very formulaic noodling and knob twiddling.

The Yamaha reverbs are clumsy, limited and compromised, by design, as they need to run dozens, nested and concurrently on anaemic hardware via bare minimum algorithms with simplistic surfaced controls suited to Motion Sequencing. They're thin, lite, homogenised and pasteurised cremes undercooked and smeared over mass produced pasta boiled past al dente.

And that's before we discuss the pig in the room, the cut and treatment of the meat.

 
Posted : 28/10/2022 1:57 am
Darryl
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[quotePost id=119028]Ok - but what would you put on the menu for vegans and the lactose intolerant?
[/quotePost]
Good point Bill! FM-X is vegan friendly and you can milk it for all it's worth (oat milk that is). 😉
I myself am allergic to bull, so that sauce is not going to mix well for me either :p

 
Posted : 28/10/2022 2:22 am
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