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Organ DrawBar Control on SuperKnob

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Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

This is more of an appeal to your musical, rather than technical, knowledge. I remind you that I am a keyboard novice.

This may be of interest to you, please advise if you like the challenge, and I will make available whatever solutions I develop.

I would like to program the Super Knob to provide an excursion through popular/essential draw bar settings in one complete rotation.

1) Please can you provide a list of commonly favoured draw bar settings in the form of:-

8.8.8.8.0.0.6.6.2 etc

2) Since there are only 8 elements, but nine drawbars, 2 drawbars will need to operate in tandem. Any recommendations on which two should be assigned to one control? e.g. the first two, 1 and 6 etc.

I have noticed you can set "movement" patterns for the Super Knob, such that 1 single rotation of the Super knob can make an Assign Knob cycle from Zero to Full to Zero, maybe 2 or 3 times.

The goal would be to have the Super Knob act almost like a selection wheel.

Its a bit of a lateral thinking puzzle, but I think I am up to it.

Cheers,

Tony.

 
Posted : 11/01/2021 12:53 pm
Darryl
Posts: 829
Prominent Member
 

I would like to program the Super Knob to provide an excursion through popular/essential draw bar settings in one complete rotation.

I'm not a true Hammond organ guy, but I recently completed tweaking a bunch of organs based off of the Organimation organs. They have customized User curves for volume control of the elements. It kind of does something similar to what you're looking to do, but it would be quite difficult to use the SuperKnob to do exactly what you want, but it may be possible.

1) Please can you provide a list of commonly favoured draw bar settings in the form of:-

888800000 is a fairly common one as I understand it
688600000 is supposedly a Whiter Shade of Pale
100000001 is a common gospel or church organ

2) Since there are only 8 elements, but nine drawbars, 2 drawbars will need to operate in tandem. Any recommendations on which two should be assigned to one control? e.g. the first two, 1 and 6 etc.
The goal would be to have the Super Knob act almost like a selection wheel.

The Organimation organs combine 7 & 8

I recreated the Organimation organ Performance template by replacing all the Organimation waveforms with Preset waveforms. I split out the 7 & 8 waveform into two separate ones and moved draw 9 to PART2.

I use the SuperKnob for some organs, but to do what you are trying to accomplish, I set different volumes via Scenes. I also set AsgnKnob1 to control distortion from clean to full.

 
Posted : 11/01/2021 5:27 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Just FYI, Yamaha started as an organ company, and if you live in a part of the world where you can get Electones, you probably have heard these unbelievable musical instruments.

The three settings suggested by Darryl:

888800000 is a fairly common one as I understand it
688600000 is supposedly a Whiter Shade of Pale
100000001 is a common gospel or church organ

These are so common, and so often used... you will find these three drawbar settings as three separate Waveforms. So they can be accomplished with a single Element!!

Initialize a Normal AWM2 Performance.

888800000 is Preset Waveform number 460 called “1st Four Draw”
688600000 is so iconic it is listed as Waveform 496 called “Tonewheel1 Slow”, and Waveform 497 called “Tonewheel1 Fast”
100000001 is also so very, very common it is listed as Waveform 458 called “Gospel”

The Tonewheel1 waveforms are sampled with the rotary Speaker... study the Performance “Whiter Bars” for how the programmer morphs with the MW between these Elements (Elem1 is Slow, Elem2 is Fast)... rather than use the Rotary Speaker Insertion Effect, here the programmer fades out the Slow rotary sample set, and fades in the Fast rotary sample set.

Hint: do not, please do not program an entire Element, if you are not going to use it. For example, programming Drawbars 5, 6, 7 would be totally unnecessary to create a Super Knob morph between these three B3 sounds... it would only use polyphony to reproduce a 0 output... what a waste of resources.

Analyze the organ settings you wish to emulate then construct the sound. A playable sound in the MODX/MONTAGE can have more than 8 Elements, you simply need to add an additional KBD CTRL Part, for an additional 8 Elements. If you know where you start and where you finish you can setup exactly what you need.

In the tutorial articles on the Super Knob I take you through morphing between the “Gospel” (Element) and the “1st Four Draw” organ Elements in a simple example of how the Controller Assign boxes work... read the article for the details:

Link: Mastering Montage: Controller Box Switches

Extra Credit:
Check out some Electone organ stuff here:
https://youtu.be/85I6k1Aoa6U
https://youtu.be/Yp5HpjhKHKs

 
Posted : 11/01/2021 8:17 pm
Jason
Posts: 8238
Illustrious Member
 

If you wanted to use a drawbar organ, use superknob as a "preset switcher", and still be allowed to move the drawbars to non preset values - you can do that. At maximum you could only control up to 8 different drawbars independently because there are only 8 Common/Audio level assignable knobs and superknob cannot independently cause anything else to become a destination that feeds to Parts. But luckily your example only needs control over 5 drawbars independently (1-4, 9) and the other 4 drawbars (5, 6, 7, 8) could be controlled together.

The other consideration is that if you start with an organ like "All 9 Bars!" - there are lots assignable knobs (both at the Common and Part level) that are already assigned. And also assignments themselves are a "scarce" resource with only 16. Something with lots of assignments already means you may go over the 16 destination limit.

To minimize the resources - you can notice that two drawbars work "the same" between the 3 selections. Drawbars 2 and 3. So these can be "ganged together" with a single control. So you would need 5 total assignable knobs to deal with all 9 drawbars.

The first step would be to clear out as many of the assignable knobs as possible to get to 5 free at the common level and 5 free at the Part level. This would take some compromise. Fix those items previously controlled by knobs to appropriately "tuned" fixed values - or assign them to some other controller (ribbon, mod, assignable switches, etc).

Then you would use user curves to setup control of each of the 5 different element level patterns that map to the range of superknob you want to designate for each preset.

Keep in mind that "0" and "8" are pretty easy to realize with bipolor. "1" or "6" is not as easy although doable. I would tend to do this in two stages. First force the element to full 127 or full 0 with one destination and use a 2nd destination to subtract (or add) from these offsets. This would allow for still "disengaging" and allowing for the sliders to act as free drawbars.

It's not a small amount of programming.

The disengage button I would either set to a scene button placing superknob at that position or use one of the two superknob assignable position buttons located right above superknob.

I didn't really "1,2,3" this one. It's possible - but there's a lot of doing.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 11/01/2021 9:12 pm
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks for responses so far.

I just realised I posted this in the MONTAGE forum, when in fact I own a MODX7 i.e. only 4 physical sliders, and hence the project.

I suppose all the functionality will be the same.

 
Posted : 12/01/2021 12:15 am
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

If you recognise, or know the actual draw bar configuration for each of these "Shortcut Samples*", please can you let me know.

(*see Bad Mister tips above)

I'm hoping these are all Hammond B3, doesn't really matter.

Rock Chorus Vibrato
Rock Percussion
Rock2/+/-
Jazz Percussion/+/-
Jazz/+/-
Full Draw/+/-
Swish/-
Bow
Bow Chorus Vibrato
Gospel
Soul
1st Four Draw
Draw 1+3 +/-
Draw 2+4 +/-
Draw Even/+/-
Draw Odd/+/-

The Following are the samples recorded with the Rotary On Fast, or Rotary On Slow, including Stereo, Left and Right versions.

Tonewheel1
Tonewheel2
Tonewheel3
Tonewheel4 (Fast Only)
Tonewheel5 (Fast Only)
Tonewheel6 (Fast Only)

In addition there are all the various footage pipe samples, but I thought I will try Bad Mister's tips first.

I know some of them seem obvious (like 1+3, or 2+4), but I don't want to make assumptions.

Cheers,

Tony

 
Posted : 12/01/2021 12:29 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

I just realised I posted this in the MONTAGE forum, when in fact I own a MODX7 i.e. only 4 physical sliders, and hence the project.

Article Link: Mastering MODX: Controller Box Switches

I'm hoping these are all Hammond B3, doesn't really matter.

Actually, it sounds very much like it does matter. lol.

Any sound listed in the Organ-ToneWheel categories can be assumed to be emulations of the Hammond B3.
Those listed in the Organ-Combo categories represent the portable organs that include Vox, Farfisa, YC, etc.

Draw 1+3 refers to the first and third drawbars - that’s the 16’ and the 8’
Draw 2+4 refers to the second and fourth drawbars - that’s the 5 1/3’ and the 4’

Extra Credit: Programming Drawbar Organ sounds
Synth Basics: The Organ - The Father of the Synthesizer Part 1
Synth Basics: Organ - The Father of the Synthesizer Part 2
Synth Basics: Organ - The Father of the Synthesizer Part 3

 
Posted : 12/01/2021 4:08 pm
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks BM

 
Posted : 13/01/2021 10:21 am
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