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Seamlessly switching parts within a performance

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Hi Montageans,

I'm in love with my Montage for more than one year now, but sometimes I wonder if there are more elegant solutions for what I want to achieve.

My main use case is a coverband situation where I have lots of split performances (as I play left hand bass) and additionally use different sounds for different parts in the songs. In most cases I use the scene memory feature to accomplish this, because I find it easy to setup and easy to handle in a live situation. However, scene memory works like a "mixer", so if I switch scenes to mute some parts and activate others, the sound of the muted part is immediately cut off.

Sometimes I want some parts to play on as long as I hold the sustain pedal while playing the newly activated parts. Do you have any suggestions how to achieve this? Part select does not help me, as I need multiple parts active at a time.

My ideas are:
1.) Set up two performances and use SSS.
Works, but doesn't seem really elegant. When using live set mode i always have to remember if i need multiple performances for one song and place them correctly in my live set.

2.) Using the assignable function buttons to turn of all elements of "unwanted" parts
Pro: it works the way I need it (the sound goes on as long as the sustain pedal is pressed and I can press the AF-Button to "switch" sounds).
Con: Complicated to setup (because most of the time the AF-Buttons are already assigend and I have to find out what happens if the AF-Button is pressed). Additionally the AF-Buttons are difficult for me to reach with my right hand while playing bass with my left hand.

As you can see, I already found workarounds, I just want to be sure I'm not blind to see more elegant solutions in this endless land of possibilities that Montage offers πŸ™‚

Regards
Tobias

 
Posted : 05/03/2018 9:33 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

So you see several solutions but, let me get this straight ...it’s β€œcomplicated to setup” ... yikes, what you describe you want to do is what is complicated. You can’t use the PART SELECT method because you need multiple Parts.
You want to switch between multiple Part Performances holding one as long as you want with the sustain pedal while playing the other multi Part, but SSS isn’t elegant enough because you need to place them next to each other in your Live Set.

The story of the princess and the pea comes to mind... πŸ™‚

Really, are these too complicated and too much trouble? ...really?

You are getting to the point where a second MONTAGE might be in your future. And that is a serious option... the DJ solution, when you can’t accomplish everything you need on one turntable, a second opens up new possibilities.

I could perhaps suggest some other solutions, but for fear of not being as elegant, or of being too complicated, or perhaps requiring you move a Live Set slot, what would be the point? πŸ™‚ I’m teasing... obviously, there are other methodologies to seamlessly switch between sounding Elements... that is the thing about the MONTAGE... it really is a deep engine.

A single AWM2 Element is a complete synth. Oscillator, Filter, Amplifier... Routing to Effects... instead of always looking toward multiple Parts, you can sometimes make a Single Part play multiple roles. Many times deeper programming is the solution... but you seem to want to avoid anything more complicated as a solution. If you change you mind, let us know...

All fun and teasing aside, SSS is specifically designed for those few times when you actually need to sustain one multiple Part sounds while playing on the new multi Part sound... allowing you to hold the first sound as long as you wish. That's it reason to be. It does not solve all issues but for that β€œuse case” it works great. Moving LIVE SETS is also fairly easy, really. Use the β€œSwap” feature.

Btw - agreed the switching of right hand sounds while maintaining a walking bass, is a bit of a, literal, stretch. I’ll have to look into another solution... but it’s necessity that is the mother of invention...

 
Posted : 05/03/2018 10:11 pm
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Wow, that was quick and straight πŸ™‚ Thanks, Bad Mister. It's not that I want to avoid programming - SSS and AF buttons or even packing everything into one AWM2 Part work fine for me. I just wanted to make sure I'm not overlooking a more simple solution for what I need most of the time when creating own performances. You may call it laziness, I call it efficiency πŸ™‚

 
Posted : 05/03/2018 10:48 pm
Jason
Posts: 7913
Illustrious Member
 

Would be nice to be able to assign A.SW1 or 2 to the foot switch. You can indirectly engage either A.SW (or turn either off) with scenes by using ARPs. There are ARPs which touch the A.SW1,2 as part of the standard built-in ARPs. If they do not do exactly what you want, you can make custom ones that do.

The thought is to trigger ARP changes which set up your XA style switching to allow for right hand engineering while your left continues the bass.

 
Posted : 06/03/2018 12:39 am
Posts: 0
New Member
 

Hi Tobias,

If Yamaha adds keyboard ctrl and keyboard range to the settings a scene could store, we could have a very elegant solution to this question, and one which would be easy for anyone to use.
Until (and if) that happens, we have to do some XA and/or part programming to get this done.
I really hope that Montage product engineers read these forums to get new ideas πŸ™‚

 
Posted : 06/03/2018 1:53 am
Sladjan
Posts: 0
New Member
 

My experience so far:
For my live playing purposes I use mostly the live set mode. The Montage has a touch screen which means that names are given to a performance very easily and fast. There is a shortcut to put a performance into a live set slot. So, I don't really see this as a hassle. Quite contrary. The scene buttons seem like a nice way to change between sounds within one performance, but you don't really know which button activates which part until you learn it. And having a lot of performances and songs means that it becomes more and more complicated to remember what is hidden behind a certain scene button.
The live set list view on the other side shows you 16 slots at once. You don't really need to remember how many performances belong to a dedicated song as long as you name the performances by the song name. But even if you don't, you can put color tags which can help identify what belongs together. However, I always use a song name. In the liveset list you can also copy very fast the needed performances one after the other which means you can switch with a switch pedal to the next liveset. And on top of that, you can also put some short memos for each single slot where you can memorize some helpful reminders although you are limited to just 20 characters. It seems like a nice idea at first, but I don't really see any special benefit in using the scene buttons in comparison to the live set list or even the XA function for switching between two sounds.

 
Posted : 06/03/2018 7:44 am
Jason
Posts: 7913
Illustrious Member
 

I name the performance by scene change for some tunes. Others, I have a cheat sheet. The default scene is always the 1st lit button and the next scene button is temporally the next one in the song sequence. If I have 4 scenes total, I'll start with scene 5, next scene 6, then scene 7, then scene 8. Scenes are easier for me to reach near scene button 8 so I try to start as close to the end as possible. Some I have setup to start with 8 and go backwards. Makes sense to me as the default scene will always be at one end of the lit buttons and I work my way backwards or forwards.

I think there's no real wrong way to handle this. The system of using live set slots is great too. I use live set also to recall my performances since it's easier than [CATEGORY SEARCH]. I just strive to have every tune take up one Performance slot -- which is just my personal preference. Primarily because I have a tougher time using the touchscreen live on the gig than you. Thankfully - there is a shortcut for that (the Number A, B, C [1-4] buttons) while in Live Set - so I could use buttons -- but this is also a button position preference. I like the location of the Scene 5-8 buttons better than the Number A/B/C [1-4]. Again, personal preference.

For the bass-line-while-switching, using the right hand to switch is probably preferable. Most all of my switching is done while my right hand is busy, so left-hand switching is preferred for me.

 
Posted : 06/03/2018 8:07 am
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