There's a lot of emphasis being put on this idea that the typical Montage user will have a DAW and that the Montage feature set is tuned to this use case. Consequently, the on-board sequencer is now disappointingly very limited. It's been said time and time again that, while computers are great for building a finished composition, many still feel that they get in the way when trying to be creative. So I'd hope that Yamaha add a pattern based sequencer in a firmware update sometime soon.

Also, on the subject of DAW integration, the MOXF seems to make a much better job of this with it's front panel controls and dedicated DAW mode. Can we expect a DAW mode page in the touch screen that gives users as much control? If not, it's something of a step backwards. I guess we will have to wait until the reference manual or video tutorials are released to find out.

M

Also, on the subject of DAW integration, the MOXF seems to make a much better job of this with it's front panel controls and dedicated DAW mode. Can we expect a DAW mode page in the touch screen that gives users as much control?

No there is no DAW mode page in the touch screen of the Montage.

You'll probably have to wait for the product release to really see/understand how the workflow is entirely different from what you knew in either the MOXF or the Motif XF.

That sucks. really sucks. I don't use DAWs. I don't trust computers. one of the biggest reasons I loved the Motif was the simple Song/pattern easy to use sequencers both of my Motifs had. and being able to do my project without having to hook my keyboard up to a clumsy computer. i'm really disappointed the great sequencer is gone. it was a huge reason why it was better than Korg, Roland and others. it really is a sad day. I will try and buy another Motif. and no sampling on the Montage?? why not. I hate to sound negative but I can't get a keyboard without these features. the Montage sounds great. it really knocks me out sound wise. but I can't get with the "use a DAW" crowd. I also can't get with the catering to the EDM-Trance music theme either. which the Super knob seems to be about.

I understand what you mean, I use Korg Kronos and I like a lot the sequencer on board, easy to use and very flexible

But, as many times has been said here, montage is a synth, so if you like the sound you need to use a software sequencer for your composition

Honestly speaking what is difficult to understand is the reason why they removed something already existing

My only thing is the Motif was about all about all in one simplicity. mine unfortunately burned in a fire last year along with my Korg Kronos and microkorg and other gear. my hope is to get maybe one or two motifs again because i'm at home on a Motif xs6 or xf6.

I just purchased a montage because it was stated that, "if you owned a motif you will love the Montage" and thus thought it would be similar. But I found out once I bought the Montage that it does not have an on board sequencer and does not have pattern mode. I have never used a DAW and now I am majorly disappointed, because it seems I am starting from rock bottom. I have been getting to the point that I would like to entertain being a professional song writer and maybe even have my own group. But now that I realize I have to learn how to completely learn a new way to record patterns and loops and sequences and basically spend a ton more time learning all the ins and outs of a DAW than actually learning and playing on the Montage, I am taken aback and thinking I am so much further behind. Am I just supposed to keep playing my ES? Are there any synths that are extremely powerful that have the pattern/sequencing modes? Is there a DAW that can emulate a song and pattern track recording? How much time is going to take to learn a DAW to where it is not holding me back? I really dont want to cancel my order for the Montage 8, before I even get a chance to play it. But the fact that it isnt really like a Motif is very disheartening. Somebody please steer me in the right direction?

Is there a DAW that can emulate a song and pattern track recording?

Most can, Cubase AI that comes with Montage can do both loop based (pattern-type) recording and linear (Song-type) recording - and has the added advantage of being able to record more tracks than the Montage, if the Montage had an internal sequencer. What most people miss about the difference between Motif and Montage... is that Motif used one PART, one Track, on one MIDI channel. The Montage is much (much) bigger... than that...

Upgrading the Full version (Cubase Pro 8) and the features get even more powerful and useful. Steinberg has a YouTube Channel, take a look at some of the possibilities... You will find tons of tutorials and features you may not be aware of...

In Montage a single playable sound can be as many as 8 PARTS. So doing the simple arithmetic you can see that two or three tracks would use all of the 16 PARTS. The Montage is not restricted to just One PART per MIDI channel, you may select a String Section Performance that features 7 PARTS divided so you can "perform" strings with multiple articulations "live". You can play a Brass Horn Section which allows you to do everything from sforzandos, to shakes, to drop offs, to pitch rips - all from one sound... instead of being limited to 8 Elements... you can play sounds that are the equivalent of 8 Motif XFs... the additional Elements (up to 64 in Performance) can be brought to bare as you need them. The Seattle Sections is 22 Elements for "performing" string parts, the CFX Concert Piano is 18 Elements - for details you've never experienced in playing a hardware synthesizer.

So working by recording audio is going to be apart of the workflow with Montage. MIDI is built around a 16 Channel system - and synths until now have been based around the 16 PART paradigm. The Montage breaks the Motif mold open and is "bigger" than that one PART per Channel thing. If you have not worked with a modern PRO Digital Audio Workstation, like Cubase (or Logic Pro, or Pro Tools, or Sonar, or Digital Performer, etc., etc) you will be amazed at how advanced and complete they are - and how AUDIO data can be very much treated like MIDI data.

How much time is going to take to learn a DAW to where it is not holding me back?

Impossible to answer - how long did it take you to learn to play? A lot less time than that... !!! Probably a couple of days. Once you get setup, and oriented it is not at all that difficult. There are, like learning anything, some things that you may find challenging. If you know basically what you want to accomplish - executing it is matter of making the technology work for you. Truly we have users of software from teens to old timers. Don't be one of those who stays away from technology... it is always evolving.

The Montage is not a Motif. We spent a lot of money changing the NAME to make that point clear.

The 32 Audio Bus Outputs of the Montage open up a new level of recording capability we think will be as compelling and useful for keyboard musicians interested in creating their own music as the original Motif was back in 2001 with its PATTERN > PATTERN CHAIN > SONG workflow. The workflow now is a bit different it is SELECT/DESIGN a program > record (as MIDI first if you wish) > EDIT/CORRECT your data on the computer > Render as AUDIO ... rinse and repeat.

you can keep your MIDI recordings in a folder (for a level of "undo") in case you change your mind about a particular Part's performance. You can always redo it.
When you have finished your composition in the DAW you can export it as a .MID file or mixdown the data as a stereo 44.1kHz 24-bit .wav and install your data to the Montage's FLASH memory, or simply stream it from a USB drive connected to the Montage's TO DEVICE port.

You can setup Cubase to record any number of measures you require, and set it to CYCLE record... works exactly like PATTERN mode in that regard. You can then correct or edit your data as MIDI if that is your desire (all the edit jobs and more are available in Cubase)... then you can to a degree never before available in a hardware music synthesizer route your PARTS to audio outputs using the cutting edge Effect processing that simply yields the best results available.

You can even do loop based recording with AUDIO Tracks. Since Yamaha acquired Steinberg back in 2004-5, many features have been included into Cubase that as a Motif user you will find familiar... the PLAY ORDER function (found in Cubase Pro 8) works exactly like PATTERN and PATTERN CHAIN, where you can define regions to playback, set the number of times each region plays, and then advance it to another lettered section A, B, C, A, A, B D, etc., etc., etc. If you have not been watching this may be news. But we plan on having many tutorials and video sessions - even live interactive webinars available here on YamahaSynth that deal with finding, learning and developing your own recording workflow.

It is not 2001, 2003, 2007 or even 2010 (the years the Motif, the ES, the XS and the XF were released) this is the new top dog, and it is different. But we are confident that for those looking forward, that this is the new era synthesizer with untapped potential.

Kronos

No sequencer as in Motif but more like live recording one so no mistakes or DAW i.e Cubase and is not that hard to work with it if you use it for multitrack and pattern recording.
I used to have QY 700 Sequencer and now I have Cubase so personaly I have no problem with switch and I think is worth to get Montage and Cubase.

Ryan wrote:

I just purchased a montage because it was stated that, "if you owned a motif you will love the Montage" and thus thought it would be similar. But I found out once I bought the Montage that it does not have an on board sequencer and does not have pattern mode..........
I really dont want to cancel my order for the Montage 8, before I even get a chance to play it. But the fact that it isnt really like a Motif is very disheartening. Somebody please steer me in the right direction?

Ryan, it sounds as if you want the Montage, but don't want it. Only YOU can decide.

The dealer adverts I've seen say that when the time comes you can decide not to go ahead & will get a refund of your deposit... assuming you did not take the instrument home. They let you cancel because they know someone like me is waiting there to buy it straight away.

Fairly sure that Yamaha would rather that you have a synth you're happy with than one you are uncomfortable with. In that case, they have lots to choose from. The Motif series still being easily available either new or second hand. It really depends what your needs are. Try it out in the shop and see whether the basic implementation of the Montage sequencer is enough for you.:)

SORRY. DOUBLE POST! 🙁

Ryan wrote:

I just purchased a montage because it was stated that, "if you owned a motif you will love the Montage" and thus thought it would be similar. But I found out once I bought the Montage that it does not have an on board sequencer and does not have pattern mode.
....
I really dont want to cancel my order for the Montage 8, before I even get a chance to play it. But the fact that it isnt really like a Motif is very disheartening. Somebody please steer me in the right direction?

Ryan, it sounds as if you want the Montage, but you don't want it. Only YOU can decide.

The dealer adverts that I've seen allow you to get a refund of your deposit if you change your mind. Because they know that there'll be someone like me waiting there to snap up the Montage you left behind.

If you want a full blown sequencer there are plenty of new & second hand Motifs out there. Wait till the Montage comes in, give it a try, and the cut-down sequencer may be all you really need.

With computer programs getting more powerful & intuitive all the time, you may find the very powerful USB interface of the Montage more of an advantage than you thought. Get together with someone who's been interfacing for a while to share knowledge. And I guess the shop would also like to help and might run some classes from time to time. 🙂

I find it absolutely amusing that one can spend $4000+ because of one totally vague sentence ("if you owned a motif you will love the Montage") and without carefully studying the specifications. And then complain about it.

Interesting times.

Bad Mister, Mark, Leon ,Sam thank you guys for your quick and helpful responses. As Sam stated, I do and I dont want the Montage, but the only reason I wouldnt want it is if the learning curve is to difficult, in conjunction with Cubase or any other DAW, it just seems foreign. But as Bad Mister stated, I cant let technology hold me back or scare me away, so I am believing that the Montage is the way to go. With the fact that there are going to be tutorials and live webinars I am feeling more comfortable. HAHA I am taking a deep breathe of relief now. Thank you guys again for clearing my worried mind. I guess I have one more question, is the Motif ES pretty adaptable to Cubase where I can work and record with both the Motif ES and the montage, say on the same project? Or is there a great difference in ease, working with and connecting to Cubase, between the two synths? And one last simple question, what do I need to be ready to go, once I receive the Montage? I'll have my laptop, the Montage, and a KC-500 amp. I would like to purchase anything else I need prior to the Montage arriving. Thank you very much, again. Your help is much appreciated.

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