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when change source of mod contrl [not filter source ] you lose settings.....

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Immurtale
Posts: 267
Reputable Member
Topic starter
 

it will be an useful update to have the choice in the mod control to keep full settings when you change the source.
otherwise you have to copy manually the setting and this is prehistorical 😀

 
Posted : 18/11/2016 8:39 am
Stefan
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

natalini wrote:

it will be an useful update to have the choice in the mod control to keep full settings when you change the source.
otherwise you have to copy manually the setting and this is prehistorical 😀

It might be prehistoric, if it were the case 🙂 . I cannot see that. Either you or I are missing something. Or it is not clear enough what you are talking about. Can you describe in more detail what you are doing when you are losing the settings?

 
Posted : 18/11/2016 9:48 am
Jason
Posts: 7943
Illustrious Member
 

@Stefan,

This is a continuation of a previous thread (see https://yamahasynth.com/forum/about-motion-sequence-automation,-only-the-super-knob-can-be-automated-directly#reply-14717 ).

If you have a single destination assigned to a source (edit part, Touch "Mod/Control" -> "Control Assign" menu), then one can change the source by using the touchscreen to select "Source" and change the source to any different source parameter (enevelope follower #, mod wheel, pitch bend, aftertouch, MS Lane #, etc). As long as there is only one destination, the destination previously assigned to the source before the change will move to the new source.

However, if there is more than one destination assigned to the source before the change - then only the selected destination will move to the new source and all other destinations will still be assigned to the previous source. In other words, changing the source only moves one out of the group of destinations if more than one destination is assigned to the source. As far as I can tell, the interface does not allow for selecting more than one destination at a time.

The link to the previous thread walks through a preset which has more than one destination assigned to a single source and the steps to reproduce the behavior.

 
Posted : 18/11/2016 10:26 am
Stefan
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

@jason: Okay thanks for the clarification. That was really not obvious from the post ;). I personally think that if you select a source for a specific destination, that should really only change that destination! If I decide to move a specific control from the Mod Wheel to a pedal, that decision is not necessarily valid for all other things to be controlled by the Mod Wheel. So I think nothing is wrong, really.

I would see this more as a feature request to be able to replace a certain source by a different source. Like a job where you specify the old source and the new source. That would be a nice addition.

 
Posted : 18/11/2016 1:00 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

To be clear - you lose no settings when you change the SOURCE of Mod/Control.

Yes, much like in a modular synthesizer, where patch cables link a source to a destination, controller assignments in the Montage Control matrix are made one at a time. Because a single source can have multiple destinations and a destination can have multiple sources, this can be complicated.

As you've already learned (hopefully), you can change the Source in any Source/Destination control set, and you lose nothing. Now you find it prehistoric that you cannot change all Destinations assigned to a Source simultaneously? Hmm! (I don't think "copy" is what is in order here).

I think, again, work with it some more to find other solutions. Reassigning multiple Destinations to a new Source only seems tedious when you are still new to Control Assignments. Most often when doing (original) programming, you would be working from the other end of the stick, so to speak. Here's what I mean, if you are not the original programmer you probably discover as you have, that assignments seem to be made in the one-at-a-time fashion (because they are);

But bare with me for a minute, if you are going to assign the DRY/WET Balance of your Insert Effect to the MW, you would not necessary work, initially, on the Control Assign screen. You might find yourself inside the Insertion Effect, manipulating the Dry/Wet Balance when you realize you'd like this on a real time controller. You would highlight the parameter (move the cursor to it), the [CONTROL ASSIGN] button to the lower left of the screen, glows, indicating you can now touch the Controller you wish to assign and it will be assigned; and you are automatically taken to the Control Assign screen where you can immediately see what else is assigned to the selected controller...and, importantly, you can scale the application of that control assignment.

Because you are not the original programmer, you are seeking to change, enmasse, all the items set to a particular Source. I understand. Seems tedious, but to me the assignments are very much like patching an old cabled analog modular - where there is a (mental) benefit to the individually patching of item. And this I feel will be more appreciated when you are the one deciding which parameter should be assigned.

I do understand that when tweaking someone else's work, that you might want to work quickly and make broad changes as rapidly as possible. If the current scheme is really "prehistorical", then perhaps a different solution would work for you.

Using the example where multiple Destinations are assigned to a particular Source, say the "AsSw1", you can change them all simultaneously to another physical controller, by making the controller you wish to use Send the same message as the AsSw1, cc086. Or to an FC7 in Foot Controller 1 jack - simply make the FC1 send cc086. By assigning a physical controller to the same number as the AsSw1, it, for all intents and purposes, becomes the AsSw1.

If you cannot get into the modular (one-at-a-time) type assignments (from the other end of the stick), you can remap all Destinations quickly in one parameter change. This will affect just the current Performance.

Controllers (except FS and the SK) can be remapped on a per Performance basis:
Press [EDIT]
Press the upper [COMMON] button
Touch "Control" > "Control Number"
Simply change the Control Number of the Source you want to use to match the currently assigned Source.
Press [STORE] to store your Performance

It's fast, easy, and will hopefully allow those who find re-programming someone else's work, "prehistorical", quite a bit quicker.
🙂

Hope that helps. At least it will get you going while engineering considers your request.

 
Posted : 18/11/2016 3:51 pm
Immurtale
Posts: 267
Reputable Member
Topic starter
 

thanks, BM, yes changing the controller number 🙂 i did not thought apply that to the MS.
as i use mainly foot controllers for modulation control, and very nice using both, you have two '' super knobs under the feet,
experimenting some patterns during the play invite to try to reproduce them with the MS.
but i need to trigger the targets of both foot controllers [ number 1 and number super knob,] with MS lanes, only changing the control number
of the motion controller will not allow that. may be i miss one point ? so manually should do the job of a scribe 🙂 it need a more
elegant way at the level of Montage;)

 
Posted : 18/11/2016 8:15 pm
Immurtale
Posts: 267
Reputable Member
Topic starter
 

one way could be to have some short cut, shift something for select or deselect the destination on control Assign and then copy and paste
to another controller. another way is a patch board on the touch screen 😀 but my favorite is the simplest, ability of a controller to point targets of
another controllers.this could be implemented in the Control Assign , with the choice to choose in the targets menu another controller, then all destinations
of this controller will be copied to the another one. that is organic, i like.

 
Posted : 18/11/2016 8:39 pm
Stefan
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

Chris wrote:

One problem in comparing Montage to modular is that you cannot see all the cable routings at once.

That's true. But I just imagine a modular synthesizer with 8 parts with 8 elements each with ~30 sources and ~120 destinations each 🙂 That's a whole lot of jacks and cables!!!

More seriously: I never worked with a modular synth. But I am not sure if you can actually assign the same source to multiple destinations or multiple sources to the same desintation. Probably you need split cables or something...

 
Posted : 18/11/2016 10:50 pm
Jason
Posts: 7943
Illustrious Member
 

My thought is that if you change source, all the strings attached to the original source should be attached to the new source. Here are some scenarios:

1) Single source, Single Destination
Currently: Changing source will bring the single destination along
All destinations follow changed source suggestion: Changing source will bring the single destination along (same result as current)
Work to make (my) preferred behavior match the "only change one destination" behavior: None

2) Single source, Two Destinations
Currently: Changing source will bring the selected (single) destination
Note1: to select a different destination by touchscreen, you have to touch the destination which automatically brings up a popup menu to select a different (modify the) destination. If you just want to select a different destination for the move process, then this is noise and you need to dismiss the popup with more touchscreen presses. Maybe there are button shortcuts that make this easier - but it is "work" to select a destination.
Note2: Selecting a source through the popup does not allow for the "auto" feature which will detect movement of a source controller. So there's touchscreen menu selecting here.
All destinations follow changed source suggestion: Both destinations are assigned/move to the new source.
Work to make (my) preferred behavior match the "only change one destination behavior: a) delete one of the two destinations (matches note1 in "work"), b) Select source with "auto" feature (does not apply to non-controllers, but covers the controllers) or select source, c) Add single destination which was deleted in "a)". This represents a very light-lift amount of extra work for this one case.

3) Single source, Three or more destinations
Currently: Changing source will bring the selected (single) destination
Note1: to select a different destination by touchscreen, you have to touch the destination which automatically brings up a popup menu to select a different (modify the) destination. If you just want to select a different destination for the move process, then this is noise and you need to dismiss the popup with more touchscreen presses. Maybe there are button shortcuts that make this easier - but it is "work" to select a destination.
Note2: Selecting a source through the popup does not allow for the "auto" feature which will detect movement of a source controller. So there's touchscreen menu selecting here.
All destinations follow changed source suggestion: All destinations (3+) are assigned/move to the new source.
Work to make (my) preferred behavior match the "only change one destination behavior: a) delete one of the two destinations (matches note1 in "work"), b) Select source with "auto" feature (does not apply to non-controllers, but covers the controllers) or select source, c) Add single destination which was deleted in "a)".

For 3 or more, the benefit when you want to keep more than one destination paired with the source (that you have changed) saves much more work than the slight overhead of manually moving a single destination if that's what you want.

It would be better if you could "lock" any of the destinations so they would stay with the previous source assignment. "Job" could do this or a "Lock" icon - that when lit - let you select destinations to lock and would put a little lock next to the destination #. Any destination with the lock would not follow the source when changed. Otherwise, everything without the lock does.

Glad we have various perspectives and ideas and also passion for an improved experience.

 
Posted : 19/11/2016 12:50 pm
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