Well, yes (and no). Yes, you should be using a Yamaha FC3 or FC3A sustain pedal for your MOXF. Not only because it was designed to work with your instrument, but because if playing the acoustic piano sound is important to you, in order to take advantage of the half dampering feature built into your MOXF tone engine - the FC3/FC3A allows sustain to be more than just a dumb On/Off switch ("all or nothing at all"). The more you engage the pedal the longer the sustain envelope lasts. So it sends 0 thru 127 rather just 0 or 127. This will make a difference for those who are acoustic piano players because it allows for half pedaling techniques to be accomplished on the synthesizer. The magic is not just in the pedal, it's in the MOXF tone engine which allows adjustment of the decay time when seeing continuous sustain controller messages.

I did say "and no" ...if you don't care about any of that pianistic performing stuff and just want it to work, then you need to get a pedal with the opposite polarity of what you have now. We recommend a Yamaha (naturally) those would be the FC4 or FC5.

When buying generic pedals without knowledge of the polarity you have a 50/50 chance. We highly recommend the FC3/FC3A to get the most out of your MOXF.

Hope that helps.

I have loaded the S700 for XS sample into my Yamaha MOXF8. However, for some reason, the half-pedal function does not work with this sample. I have the FC3A sustain pedal, and the half-pedal works fine with the CFIIIS and S6 samples, but not the S700 or Power Grand. Could you give me step-by-step instructions on how to do this, as I am visually impaired and cannot easily read the screen of my MOXF.

I guess, technically, the original versions of these sounds predate the feature. I know for sure it predates the Power Grand (2001), for synthesizers anyway. I believe the first appearance of the S700 was originally in the the S-series starting with the S80 (1999). It was either the S90 or S90 ES that introduced the Half Damper function to the Yamaha Synth line (but I'm a little fuzzy on the details).

No matter, it is a feature and can easily be programmed and stored to your Voice. Here's how:
Call up the Piano VOICE.
Press [EDIT]
You can tell how many Elements are making up this Voice by looking at the numbered Track button, which now become Element Select (top row) and Element Mute (bottom row) for the Elements 1-8

Half Damper Switch and amount are programmed per Element and are apart of the Amplitude Envelope Generator... which control the changes in volume while a sound is occurring. The "magic" of half Dampering is not just in the pedal, yes you need an FC3 or FC3A to send continuous messages for cc64 0~127, but also the Element must be programmed to respond.

Two parameters are used to apply this feature.
Select ELEMENT [1]
Press [F4] AMP
Press [SF3] AEG
In the last column you will find the Half Damper Switch - if set OFF, the function is not active. Switch it ON
Above it now appears the Half Damper Time value, 0-127.
If I remember, in the MOXF the parameter is just end listed as "Sus" - but these are the Half Damper parameters.

Experiment with the setting - usually around "100" gives a very natural reaction, but set to your taste.
Repeat for each Element affected by the Sustain pedal... We mention this because often at least one Element is tasked with the KEY OFF SOUND articulation and only sounds when you release the key or release the sustain pedal, (usually the highest numbered Element... You can check what each Element is tasked with on the [F1] OSC > [SF1] WAVE screen.

Once you have set the Half Damper Switch and Time as you desire, press [STORE] to update the Voice.

For more background on this feature please see the following article from the MOXF Resources area here on Yamaha Synth!
Half Damper Function. Although written for the Motif XF it is the same implementation in the MOXF. Screens and button press differ slightly

Does the FC3A only work as a 'full sustain' pedal (like the FC4 pedal) with the S700 for XS and Power Grand sounds from the CP1 library - unless you make the changes detailed above by Bad Mister?

Also, how does the FC3A behave when you're playing a voice, for example, with the pedal either half-way or all the way down, and you switch to another voice?

Does the sustain sound continue until you release it or does having the sustain pedal engaged have no affect on the voice switch? When I tried out the MOXF8 in the shop I got mine from (only delivered yesterday - still in the box!), they didn't have a sustain pedal attached but I did notice that if holding down the keys - on a pad sound for example - had no affect on switching to another voice (the first voice cut off straight away as soon as the button was pressed).

Hope that makes sense?!

Martin wrote:

Does the FC3A only work as a 'full sustain' pedal (like the FC4 pedal) with the S700 for XS and Power Grand sounds from the CP1 library - unless you make the changes detailed above by Bad Mister?

Also, how does the FC3A behave when you're playing a voice, for example, with the pedal either half-way or all the way down, and you switch to another voice?

Does the sustain sound continue until you release it or does having the sustain pedal engaged have no affect on the voice switch? When I tried out the MOXF8 in the shop I got mine from (only delivered yesterday - still in the box!), they didn't have a sustain pedal attached but I did notice that if holding down the keys - on a pad sound for example - had no affect on switching to another voice (the first voice cut off straight away as soon as the button was pressed).

Hope that makes sense?!

Well, only some of it makes sense! 🙂

The FC3 and FC3A are pedals from Yamaha that are able to activate the Half Damper Switch and TIme parameters within the Yamaha synthesizer engines. Because the S700 for XS and Power Grand Voices were not programmed with the Half Damper Switch active, they respond to Sustain like any other sound... all values between 0-63 are Sustain OFF, and all values between 64-127 are Sustain ON. The FC3/FC3A still send 0 through 127 but because the Half Damper Switch was not programmed to be ON in these particular VOICES, the function is not available. I instructed Seth on how to activate the Half Damper Switch and how to set the Half Damper Time parameter to make it work. This can be programmed for any MOXF Voice (not just piano) of course, it makes the most sens on a piano because only a very few instrument actually have SUSTAIN PEDALs in the real world!

If you switch to another VOICE on the keyboard in VOICE mode the behavior of instrument is consistent: It STOPS sounding the Voice you are playing, cuts off the sustain and recalls the new Voice. This is always true on the MOXF, because an ALL NOTES OFF message is sent when you switch Voices. However, if you switch PARTS (PARTS is defined as a VOICE in a PERFORMANCE or MIXING setup) If you switch PARTS there is no interruption in sound, the sustain pedal will continue to sustain the PART you started with yet recall recall the new PART you have selected - you can play the new sound with out interruption. When finally you release the sustain pedal the first PART will stop sounding.

VOICES are independent programs.
When VOICES are combined with other VOICES you do so by placing them in what Yamaha calls a PART. A PART is separate set of parameters. So, for example, if you want to play a string or pad sound, hold the strings/pad with the sustain pedal, while you switched to a lead sound and played while holding the string/pad, you would accomplish this in mode where VOICES are placed in PARTS.

For example, placing the String/Pad as PART 1 of a SONG/PATTERN MIXING program, and the Synth Lead as PART 2, you can touch [1] and play the String/Pad, either hold the keys or step on the sustain pedal to hold the chord, press [2] to call up your Synth Lead, you can play that lead across all keys without interrupting the String/Pad sound. ONly when you release the pedal or let go of the held notes will the String/Pad stop.

VOICE - is a single instrument - you have to put one down before you pick up another
PART - is apart of an ensemble - you can seamlessly move between PARTS by selecting the PART by a numbered button.
In a SONG/PATTERN MIXING setup you can have as many as 16 VOICES, one each of the 16 PARTS.

Make sense?

Bad Mister wrote:

The FC3 and FC3A are pedals from Yamaha that are able to activate the Half Damper Switch and TIme parameters within the Yamaha synthesizer engines. Because the S700 for XS and Power Grand Voices were not programmed with the Half Damper Switch active, they respond to Sustain like any other sound... all values between 0-63 are Sustain OFF, and all values between 64-127 are Sustain ON. The FC3/FC3A still send 0 through 127 but because the Half Damper Switch was not programmed to be ON in these particular VOICES, the function is not available. I instructed Seth on how to activate the Half Damper Switch and how to set the Half Damper Time parameter to make it work. This can be programmed for any MOXF Voice (not just piano) of course, it makes the most sens on a piano because only a very few instrument actually have SUSTAIN PEDALs in the real world!

If you switch to another VOICE on the keyboard in VOICE mode the behavior of instrument is consistent: It STOPS sounding the Voice you are playing, cuts off the sustain and recalls the new Voice. This is always true on the MOXF, because an ALL NOTES OFF message is sent when you switch Voices. However, if you switch PARTS (PARTS is defined as a VOICE in a PERFORMANCE or MIXING setup) If you switch PARTS there is no interruption in sound, the sustain pedal will continue to sustain the PART you started with yet recall recall the new PART you have selected - you can play the new sound with out interruption. When finally you release the sustain pedal the first PART will stop sounding.

VOICES are independent programs.
When VOICES are combined with other VOICES you do so by placing them in what Yamaha calls a PART. A PART is separate set of parameters. So, for example, if you want to play a string or pad sound, hold the strings/pad with the sustain pedal, while you switched to a lead sound and played while holding the string/pad, you would accomplish this in mode where VOICES are placed in PARTS.

For example, placing the String/Pad as PART 1 of a SONG/PATTERN MIXING program, and the Synth Lead as PART 2, you can touch [1] and play the String/Pad, either hold the keys or step on the sustain pedal to hold the chord, press [2] to call up your Synth Lead, you can play that lead across all keys without interrupting the String/Pad sound. ONly when you release the pedal or let go of the held notes will the String/Pad stop.

VOICE - is a single instrument - you have to put one down before you pick up another
PART - is apart of an ensemble - you can seamlessly move between PARTS by selecting the PART by a numbered button.
In a SONG/PATTERN MIXING setup you can have as many as 16 VOICES, one each of the 16 PARTS.

Make sense?

KInd of makes sense yeah.... 🙂 I think I follow you!

IF I'm reading this correctly, for live performance where I may need to call up and then switch between several voices without any interruption a Song or Pattern MIXING set up is the way to go yes?

Also, if I'm reading this correctly, the individual effects assigned to each Voice remain intact when setting up Song MIXING, right?

I guess that then begs the question, what about the Performances in the MOXF8? Can these be used in a Song MIXING setup or are we talking only about Voices here?

I also found the article linked to below, which is useful but I think I'm going to have to re-read both this and your explanation before it makes complete sense!

The MOXF8 is certainly a complex beast! Especially for someone like myself, the last piece of Yamaha synth gear I purchased was a TG500 rack module back in 1993! Been away from all this for a LONG time!

Yes, it is complex and very flexible. And you are understanding correctly. Take your time. The synth is designed to serve both live performing and music production/recording. Knowing how to best use the resources provided makes all the difference.

An individual VOICE is programmed by professional programmers (some of the best in the world), and each takes full advantage of the synth architecture. It is programmed individually and takes full advantage of the effects, EQs, and other resources of the synth architecture.

A PERFORMANCE or a MIXING setup (where Voices are combined by placing them in "PARTS") is not as deep a level of programming... It is simply a set of parameters that give you access to the original data. All setups here are user customizable, not pre-set. Because when you want to create a piano / bass split, a preset with a fixed split point would not be cool. So all these setups are in User memory. The factory setups are "suggestions", and are there to learn from, customize, reprogram, etc... To fit your musical needs.

When you construct a MIXING setup, for example, you can effectively have as many as eight Parts with their dual Insertion Effects active. It is the Insertion Effects that give a Voice it's personality... The Rotary Speaker on the B3, the amp simulator on the electric guitar, etc. (yes there are 16 Parts) but to get the most out of the setup, eight sounds to switch between seamlessly is probably more than enough for a single setup (you can create 128 MIXING setups). The MIXING program recalls all the resources at once, so switching between Parts can be accomplished within the already recalled data, so it happens without any interruption because all of the resources (effects, EQs, and routing assignments) are in place.

So the PART references the original VOICE by letting you access it with your own set of offset parameters. If you select the Full Concert Grand for PART 1, the original programmer programmed it to play across the entire keyboard, but with "Part" parameters you can opt to play it just from middle C and above, while PART 2 has the pre-programmed acoustic bass, Velo Growl, but it is offset to only play from B2 and below... So PART parameters allow you to access the original data through your own personal (offset) settings.

Thanks again Bad Mister!

Apologies to the OP, I hope I'm not thread-cr*pping here! My original question was related to sustain pedal behaviour, so hopefully not!

I think I'm getting my head around the MIXING concept.

I will be playing live again at some point so to know how to use this feature. It seems VERY powerful indeed.

However, there are but a few things still are not clear to me:

1. Can Performances be used with Song MIXING or only Voices? (I think the latter only)

2. Presumably the Voice's own unique effects settings are applied, but how are the System and Master Effects applied when creating a Song MIXING setup? Is it just applied automatically or do you HAVE to configure those?

I don't want to spend time editing stuff, I just want to play 🙂

3. How do you control the volume of the PARTS (Voices) in a Song MIXING setup in a live situation (e.g. 'on the fly')?

4. Do the Voices used in a Song MIXING setup have to be transmitted on their own individual MIDI channel? Or can they be on the same channel? Or a combination of the two? (if the latter, when would I do that and and why?)

The fourth question abobe is perhaps the one I'm struggling with here, as I am not certain at all as to why you would have the sounds on different MIDI channels....if you're switching the Voices (PARTS) in and out anyway using the Number [1] to [16] buttons, why have them set up on different MIDI channels?

Or is there something am I really not quite understanding here?

Can Performances be used with Song MIXING or only Voices? (I think the latter only)

Yes they can but with the following cravat: you cannot record a Performance that contains arpeggios while in Song Mixing.

A Performance is defined as four Voices each placed in separate PARTS, but setup so they all can be triggered together by the keyboard.
A Mixing is defined as sixteen Voices each placed in sixteen separate PARTS, but setup so they can be triggered one-at-a-time... Mainly used to be played by the 16 track Midi sequencer. Multiple Midi channels are involved.

So a Performance of four Parts can easily be copied to a MIXING - simply place all four Parts on the same MIDI channel so that they can be triggered together.

The reason a Performance copied into a Mixing cannot be recorded by the sequencer is because a MIDI Track can record either you playing the keys and triggering the synth engine or it can record the arpeggiator playing the synth engine, it cannot record both simultaneously.

In order to record a Performance Yamaha developed a special routine called "Direct Performance Record" - which is a macro of several routines that separates what you play into four separate streams of MIDI data... And without writing a book, let's just say it is able to split the data, document it, then reunite it with the appropriate data after it copies the Parts from Performance mode to a target Mixng mode setup.

A receiving device, like a Midi sequencer or a DAW, like Cubase, cannot tell the difference between *you* pressing a key and the *arpeggiator* "pressing" a key. To the MIDI track it's just a note-on. Picture playing a finger-picking guitar arpeggio layered with a string pad. You hold down a whole note C Major 7 chord staring at middle "C"... What the arpeggiator does is take your held chord and triggers an authentic sounding sixteenth note finger picked guitar riff... What does the sequencer "see"? Well if you think about it, it sees both Middle "C" hit and held for a whole measure (as the string pad) and maybe it sees it played as a staccato sixteenth note four or five times for the finger picked guitar phrase. When you attempt to play this back, the held notes are clipped short because to "play" them you transmitted on just one MIDI channel... But to play it back the data is now completely illogical. How can the note be simultaneously held and played staccato? (The great MIDI conundrum).

So you can play four Parts simultaneously while in Song Mixing, just do not attempt to record it if the arpeggiators are involved.

Presumably the Voice's own unique effects settings are applied, but how are the System and Master Effects applied when creating a Song MIXING setup? Is it just applied automatically or do you HAVE to configure those?

The Voice's own unique effects (INSERT EFFECTS) are technically apart of the Voice. The SYSTEM and MASTER EFFECTs are outside the instrument and represent the "environment"

Take a B3, the Insert Effects could be an Overdrive and a Rotary Speaker effect. These the organist would have control over in real time while performing.
Take an electric guitar, the Insert Effects could be a Compressor/Distortion and a Wah-Wah. These the guitarist would want to have real time control over while performing...

The SYSTEM EFFECT might be set to a Large Hall (REVERB processor) and a Delay doing multiple repeats (CHORUS processor). These each channel of the mixer has a Send amount control (like any band's mixer with two AUX sends) you can select how much of each channel gets fed to these "shared" effects. They try to recreate the room acoustics and are able to be shared by any member of the ensemble. They are typically not adjusted in real time. To change the reverberation characteristics of Carnegie Hall requires a special work permit, and a team of construction workers 🙂 ... It just isn't done.

The MASTER EFFECT is beyond the fourth wall... It is like an overall effect... These are often referred to as "DJ Effects" because they are applied overall, and very much after-the-fact... Imagine applying an effect to a record (vinyl) that is being played back. You cannot just apply it to the rhythm guitar, whatever MASTER EFFECT you choose will apply to the whole played back signal.

So Insert Effects are extremely personal to the instrument; System Effects are "shared" by the band with Aux-type send amount controls; the Master Effect is playback/overall only.

I don't want to spend time editing stuff, I just want to play 🙂

I see the smiley face, but that is dangerous thinking... You have a synthesizer part of playing IS synthesizing... Don't even joke about separating them 🙂 good news is the default settings for System Effects is a general great Reverb (all sends are modest 12), the Chorus is a dual Modulator (but all sends are 0). And the Master Effect is a Multi-band Compressor that is bypassed, so you can be completely lazy, if you prefer.

How do you control the volume of the PARTS (Voices) in a Song MIXING setup in a live situation (e.g. 'on the fly')?

Use the front panel knobs. These can be selected as side-by-side volume controls (top row) and pan controls (bottom row). You select a PART 1-4 the knobs are Volumes 1-4 and Pan 1-4; select a PART 5-8 the knobs control PART 5-8, and so on. To activate the side-by-side volume/pan simply press both KNOB ASSIGN buttons simultaneous (all six LEDs light).

Additionally the selected (lit) PART has access to Foot Controller (optional) and any of your other physical controllers.

Do the Voices used in a Song MIXING setup have to be transmitted on their own individual MIDI channel? Or can they be on the same channel? Or a combination of the two? (if the latter, when would I do that and and why?)

The Parts of a Mixing differ from the Parts of a Performance by the MIDI channel setting... That's the difference... Place as many Parts on the same MIDI channel and you can play them all simultaneously. You would do this when you want to play Acoustic Piano layered with Strings and the seamlessly switch to an Electric Piano layered with a Synth Pad and Brass.

Any PART can be set to any MIDI Channel.
By assign all the Parts you want play to the same channel you can switch seamlessly between multiple sounds. It is the fact that they are on different MIDI channels that allows them to transition without an audible glitch.

So if I place the Acoustic Piano on Receive Channel 1 any other Part that I assign to Receive Channel 1 will play at the same time. I just need to select the Track [1] button. So group those Parts you want to sound simultaneously on the same MIDI CHANNEL.
[MIXING]
[EDIT]
Press the Part number 1-16 to see its parameters
Press [F1] VOICE
Press [SF2] MODE
Here you can set the Receive Channel as you desire.

Hey Bad Mister, thanks again for another detailed reply!

Now just as I think I am getting my head around it, I go and confuse myself haha!

Perhaps it might be an idea if I explain a 'real-world' example, based on the sounds I will need to use for one of the songs my newly reformed band (read: bunch of middle-aged guys who really should know better!). I've picked a simple one to try and keep things as simple as possible!

Hopefully then you can tell me if I've 'got it' or not!!!

OK...so....

The main sound I will use on this particular song, for the body of the song so to speak, will be an analog synth string sound.

There is a 'quiet' section of the song, that's played twice during the song, where it's just my keys and the drummer on the hi-hats and kick drum. On this section I will play an arpeggiated part (NOT an Arpeggio generated by the MOXF8 but actually played on the keys!)

For the arpeggiated part I play, I will keep the same sound that I'm using during the main body of the song...plus I will need to bring in a bell sound that layers on top of the analog strings for the first part of the 'quiet' section.

At the start of the second half of the 'quiet' section, I will then need to bring in a third sound to layer on top of the analog strings and bells already in the 'mix'.

When the 'quiet' section ends and the rest of the band comes back in, I will revert to the analog strings sound only.

I hope this is making sense so far!

So my thinking is this:

Part 1: Analog Strings Sound on MIDI Channel 1

Part 2: Bell Sound on MIDI Channel 2

Part 3: AN Other Sound (e.g. Choir) on MIDI Channel 3

When the song starts I only have Part 1 activated (using the Number 1 button of the Number 1-16 buttons)

Get to the 'quiet' section I press the Number 2 button to bring in the Part 2 bell sound on top of the strings for the arpeggiated part I'm playing here

For the second part of the 'quiet section' I press the Number 3 button to bring in Part 3 - another sound that layers on top of the strings and bells

Just before the return to the main body of the song, I press the Number 2 and 3 buttons (simultaneously - is this possible?) to revert to the Part 1 string sound (so now only the Number 1 button is lit)

I will have a full 4 beats of 4/4 time after the 'quiet section' where there is nothing except hi-hats from the drummer. So plenty of time to switch out Parts 2 and 3.

What says you Bad Mister?!

Place the three Voices you like as PARTs 1, 2, and 3 of a PERFORMANCE.
Press the [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] button
This retasks the numbered buttons (with what is written under the buttons) as follows:
[1]-[4] as Part Select
[5]-[8] as Arp On/Off
[9]-[12] as Part Mutes
[13]-[16] as Arp Hold On/Off

You can use the Mutes to bring in an out the Parts as you require.

Bad Mister wrote:

Place the three Voices you like as PARTs 1, 2, and 3 of a PERFORMANCE.
Press the [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] button
This retasks the numbered buttons (with what is written under the buttons) as follows:
[1]-[4] as Part Select
[5]-[8] as Arp On/Off
[9]-[12] as Part Mutes
[13]-[16] as Arp Hold On/Off

You can use the Mutes to bring in an out the Parts as you require.

OK...so does this mean I'm still using a SONG MIXING setup? Or just a PERFORMANCE setup?....a bit confused now!

You can work in either mode. A Performance can house up to four Parts which are all addressed together. Using the [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] you can activate the sound or sounds you need.

If your requirements exceed four Parts you can copy your Performance to a Song or Pattern MIXING setup. But from the requirements as you have stated, you can simply use a single Performance location and activate the Parts as you need them.