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MIDI Bank Select/Program Change

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 Paul
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According to the note at the bottom of page 54 of the MX49/MX61 Data List, "Bank Select and Program Change numbers that are not supported by Yamaha will be ignored."
However, I have tried sending various random Bank Select/Program Change numbers to the MX49 from an external MIDI controller, and every combination that I have tried that is not listed as a valid combination in the table on page 54 still causes a program change on the MX49. Can you please provide a set of Bank Select/Program Change numbers that are guaranteed to be ignored by the MX49?

Thanks for your help.

 
Posted : 21/05/2017 9:51 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Paul wrote:

According to the note at the bottom of page 54 of the MX49/MX61 Data List, "Bank Select and Program Change numbers that are not supported by Yamaha will be ignored."
However, I have tried sending various random Bank Select/Program Change numbers to the MX49 from an external MIDI controller, and every combination that I have tried that is not listed as a valid combination in the table on page 54 still causes a program change on the MX49. Can you please provide a set of Bank Select/Program Change numbers that are guaranteed to be ignored by the MX49?

Thanks for your help.

No, it is far far easier to provide those that it does respond to than those that it does not. There are 16,384 possible Bank Select commands after all. Those that it does respond to are listed on page 54.

Maybe you should approach this from the angle of what you want to accomplish. You can deactivate Bank Select and/or Program Change independently on a per Part basis in the MX... you do so by setting the RCV SW = Off (Receive Switch)
See page 49 of the Reference Manual.

Bank Select is a separate, but linked, function from the Program Change. The Bank change does not occur until the Program Change Number message is received. That means you will not see a Bank Selection happen until a valid Program Change Number event completes the message. Any subsequent PC on that channel will stay in the last selected Bank.

So it could be a bad translation or simply how you interpret the manual... most of the Banks in the MX have 128 Programs so even if it does not respond to a Bank Select, a Normal Voice Part always will respond to Program Change. If you select the GM drum kit Bank, it only has one Kit, all other Program Changes for MSB/LSB 127/000 will indeed be ignored.

We'll take a look at this, but what are you trying to accomplish?

 
Posted : 22/05/2017 3:32 pm
 Paul
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Thank you very much for the reply. I know that this must seem like an unusual question, but I do have a good reason for trying to find a combination of Bank Select/ Program change numbers that are ignored by the MX49. I am using an Alesis Vortex controller as a remote device to send MIDI messages to the MX49 on MIDI channel 1. The Vortex has the undesirable feature that it will always send out Bank Select/Program Change messages whenever a new internal Vortex patch number is selected. This behavior cannot be disabled, but I do have the capability to specify the Bank Select/Program change numbers that are sent out when a new patch is selected on the Vortex. In addition, I am using the programmable PAD buttons on the Vortex to send out specific Bank Select/Program Change numbers to put the MX49 into Performance Selection mode and select a specified Performance on the MX49 (i.e. MSB = 63, LSB = 80, Program # = 0-127). These PAD button values can be independently programmed on the Vortex and are independent of the values sent when changing Vortex patches. So, I want ONLY the MIDI Bank Select/Program Change messages sent from the Vortex PAD buttons to be recognized by the MX49 and I want the Bank Select/Program Change messages that are automatically sent by the Vortex when I change Vortex Patches to be ignored by the MX49. I had hoped to accomplish this goal by setting the Bank Select/Program Change numbers sent by the Vortex when selecting a new Vortex patch to a set of values that would definitely be ignored by the MX49.

On reviewing the BANK SELECT/PROGRAM CHANGE table on page 54 of the MX49/MX61 Data List, it would appear that the MX49 should only respond to number combinations listed in the table. However, upon performing some experiments with sending different combinations of "invalid" values (and confirming the message data being sent with a MIDI data monitor), I was not able to find a combination (even though not listed in the table as a valid combination) that did not cause a voice change on the MX49. I tried obvious "invalid" number combinations like MSB = 127, LSB = 127, Program = 127, but each time I sent Bank Select/Program Change messages to the MX49, I would see some sort of voice selection change occur on the MX49. As you suggested, I even tried selecting an "invalid" Program number in the GM Drum Voice bank (MSB = 127, LSB = 0, Program # = 127) and the result was that the MX49 Part 1 Voice was set to Standard GM Kit. So, it appears that this seemingly invalid combination of numbers is not being ignored by the MX49, but rather is being interpreted as the Bank Select/Program Change sequence to select MSB = 127, LSB = 0, and Program # = 0 (Standard GM Kit).

Hence, this is the rationale for my question. If you can provide me with just one known combination of Bank Select/Program Change numbers that has been demonstrated to be completely ignored by the MX49, this will provide a simple solution to my dilemma. The option to disable Bank Select or Program Change messages from being received by the MX49 is not an option, as I still need to be able to send these messages to the MX49 via the Vortex PAD buttons. Thank you for looking into this question further, and I hope you can provide a workable answer to my question.

 
Posted : 23/05/2017 3:08 am
 Paul
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I've been waiting for a response to this issue from Yamaha since May 2017, and I am still waiting.
I don't believe that they have really looked into this issue yet...

 
Posted : 03/02/2018 8:13 am
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