Why do Livesets on the YC when triggered by a program change message ignore volume levels per Voice?

What is the exact program change message you are sending? I don't see anything in the manual for loading user defined live sets.

However, the problem is that all Voices then sound on the YC, including the one(s) for which the volume was stored at level 0.

A program change message, in and of itself, shouldn't change ANY parameters at all. It just instructs the instrument to load the new program.

It seems like the PC message you are sending is loading the voice itself and NOT loading the live set you stored.

What I mean by 'sending a program change', is that for one Part in a MODX Performance, I set the desired YC Liveset via Part settings - Zone settings, and then: Zone On, Transmit Channel to the MIDI channel of the YC, Program Change ON, and MIDI Bank MSB 063, which then allows me to select the required YC Liveset page and program number by choosing the corresponding MIDI Bank LSB and Program Number, as per the Bank Select information in the MIDI Data Table in the YC Owner's manual on page 64.

It seems to me that this should simply call up the chosen YC Liveset, which can include multiple Voices that each have their own settings, including volume per Voice. While the MODX settings as described do indeed trigger a program change, calling up the desired YC Liveset, this doesn't also set the volume per Voice as stored in the YC Liveset, which is different from selecting the Liveset directly on the YC.

Hopefully my explanation is clear now. Many thanks for helping out!

You beat me to the punch as I was generating the share file. Still, although late to the party, I'll still post this:

It seems to me that this should simply call up the chosen YC Liveset, which can include multiple Voices that each have their own settings, including volume per Voice.

Thanks for the detail.

On the Modx Zone Settings screen there are also parameters for 'Vol/Exp' (ON/OFF) and MIDI volume.

I wonder if these values are being transmitted and overriding, or offsetting, the values on the YC? My thinking is that the Modx may send some additional 'setup' messages when you first activate the zone.

You might try some tests by setting'Vol/Exp' to OFF and/or changing the MIDI volume to 0 and see how those affect the volume on the YC.

The Modx will NOT know anything about how many voices you have, active or not, on the YC.

My hypothesis is still that if you only send a PC message you should get the volumes stored in the Live Set.

You could also use MIDI-OX (or other) to send just the program change message and see what results you get.

Thanks for helping Andrew and Jason!

If I switch the Vol/Exp setting Off in the Zone Settings (or Zone Transmit) on the MODX, the program change indeed doesn't override the Voice volume levels for that Liveset on the YC anymore. However, if I do this my expression pedal (which I want to control both the MODX and the YC) doesn't control the YC volume anymore. So, the initial win (no longer overriding Voice volume levels as stored in the Liveset) goes with the loss of not being able to control volume of both MODX and YC while playing. The latter is a no go for me, so this doesn't help.

The solution could be in a setting on the YC that stops stored VOLUME LEVELS PER VOICE to be overridden when receiving a program change, while still receiving VOL/EXP PEDAL CONTROL via MIDI.

An alternative would be to have the MODX tell the YC to turn down the volume level of Voices that shouldn't sound initially. Page 60 of the YC manual lists CC numbers for the volume of Key A (18) and Key B (27), but I have no idea how to set these from the MODX, while still controlling overall volume via the Expression pedal.

If you want the volume to not change for any voice (organ and/or keys A and/or keys B) then, on the YC, turn the "Expression Receive" to OFF for that(those) voice(s). This way your MODX will not impact the MIDI volume of this(these) voice(s). All of the other voices you want to be "off" initially (volume 0) - so you can set the MIDI volume transmitted in the MODX's Part Zone settings to 0 while keeping zone volume transmit ON. When you move the expression pedal only those voices with the expression receive set to ON will change volume.

If I switch the Vol/Exp setting Off in the Zone Settings (or Zone Transmit) on the MODX, the program change indeed doesn't override the Voice volume levels for that Liveset on the YC anymore. However, if I do this my expression pedal (which I want to control both the MODX and the YC) doesn't control the YC volume anymore.

Good - making progress one step at a time.

But you didn't say if you did the second test I mentioned

and/or changing the MIDI volume to 0 and see how those affect the volume on the YC.

On that Modx settings page the MIDI volume is going to be either a raw 'volume' that will totally override the YC default values or, hopefully, an offset.

You need to test to see which it is. If it is a raw volume then setting the MIDI volume to zero (with Vol/Exp ON) should load the new stuff on the YC with a volume of 0 for everything - so you won't hear any sound at all.

If it is an offset then on the YC you should hear just the one voice that has a non-zero default volume setting.

For the test don't use the expression pedal at all.

Please report back the results of that test:

1. Expression pedal at minimum on the Modx
2. Vol/Exp ON on the Modx
3. Volume = 0 on the Modx

An alternative would be to have the MODX tell the YC to turn down the volume level of Voices that shouldn't sound initially.

I'm not aware of any such 'macro' facility for sending arbitrary MIDI messages.

Thanks Jason and Andrew for your suggestions.

Unfortunately, setting the MIDI volume to 0 on the MODX results in muting ALL YC Voices, including the Voice that is supposed to sound. Whether Expression Receive is On or Off for a Voice on the YC doesn’t make any difference; all Voices are muted. Also the expression pedal (plugged into the MODX) has no effect.

- If Vol/Exp is On in the MODX Zone settings, the MIDI volume setting on the MODX fixes the volume level of ALL YC voices at 100, so what Andrew calls ‘raw volume’.
- If Vol/Exp is Off in the MODX Zone settings, I cannot control the volume of any YC voice anymore via the Expression pedal on the MODX.

If there are no other ideas, I’m afraid that I’ll have to store inactive voice as Off again, and try to remember which silenced Voice is stored in which Section, or try to squeeze voice abbreviations into live set names. And pray that the Ideascale suggestion to also show inactive Voices in Live Set view will be picked up soon...

[quotePost id=122006]If I switch the Vol/Exp setting Off in the Zone Settings (or Zone Transmit) on the MODX, the program change indeed doesn't override the Voice volume levels for that Liveset on the YC anymore. However, if I do this my expression pedal (which I want to control both the MODX and the YC) doesn't control the YC volume anymore. So, the initial win (no longer overriding Voice volume levels as stored in the Liveset) goes with the loss of not being able to control volume of both MODX and YC while playing. The latter is a no go for me, so this doesn't help.[/quotePost]
You could attach another expression pedal to the YC to maintain foot volume controls of both. If you velcro'd the two expression pedals next to each other on a small board, you should even be able to operate the pedal for one board, the other board, or both boards simultaneously based on where you place your foot, though that works more easily for sustain pedals (which always return to the same position) than expression pedals (that stay where you leave them).

Something else you could do is use a line level volume pedal on the combined outs of both boards. There are multiple ways to do this, but the easiest might be to do something like run the MODX audio out into the CK line input, then put a volume pedal between the CK line output and your amp (or PA or mixer, whatever it is you currently are running your keyboards into).