The post is a little confusing, but I think you're trying to play the CK sounds from the YC's keys; but changing the touch curve settings on the YC does what you expect in terms of playing its own sounds, but is not giving you the results you expect when playing the CK sounds from the YC's keys, right?

Assuming that's right, it's possible that the YC's "Normal, Soft, Hard, Wide" touch settings may not affect MIDI at all, they might only affect playing the internal sounds. Some boards work that way. I'm not sure about the YC, but it could be worth checking into. Try changing that setting, confirm that you notice the response of the internal keys changing as you cycle through those options, then see if you notice the same kind of changes in response when you cycle through those YC options while playing its sounds from the CK's keys. You might notice no change at all when changing those settings in that case. You can also us a MIDI monitor to confirm that the YC is (or is not) sending out different MIDI velocities for the same kind of strike depending on which of those touch settings you select. And you'll be able to see, for example, how hard you have to hit it to generate a 127 depending on which of those curve settings you select.

[quotePost id=121543]Doesn't MIDI have to transmit the message indicating "hard key strike" to make the CK understand to play it as such?[/quotePost]
The message that needs to be sent is simply a higher velocity figure when the key is struck with more force. The "hard key strike" message is the velocity parameter, sent with each key you play.

Yes you are correct that the YC reaches maximum 127 as designed when playing it's internal voices or in other words it's very dynamic. When I MIDI cable to the SKpro and CK it doesn't appear to work correctly. Soft key presses work but at some point it seems to max out at less than the maximum 127 and therefore the selected doesn't sound the same, like only half as dynamic as going back to the keys of the original board. Seems like common sense would be that it should play exactly the same since it's a pro level board and also meant to be a controller. Is there a way to correct this internally? I've been through the MIDI options but I don't see a transmit to maximum or something less in the options. Could the MIDI cable have an issue? Can these be linked via usb MIDI or not? Could MIDI splitter cause a problem? I could change the cables just to check but typically you can daisy chain MIDI together. I have the SKpro, CK, Opsix and ASM sometimes all going through the YC. However when only running the CK it still doesn't work like I'd expect. Now I think the SKPpro has something crazy like 7 key sensors but that still shouldn't inhibit sending a 127 signal to those boards. If the YC can internally play 127 or signal a hard strike it should be able to MIDI send that same signal, correct?

Creating two threads for the same issue isn't going to help solve your problem.

Use a MIDI monitor and see what MIDI is actually being sent.

All you are doing right now is making things up that aren't based on any facts. That isn't going to get you anywhere.

Here are some new facts.

1) I changed the MIDI cable and it didn't help. Exact same problem
2) I reversed the boards meaning I set CK to play the YC remotely and the full velocity/dynamics are present
3) The YC is the problem. It won't send the full MIDI signal so what's the problem and does this require an OS repair?

What is a MIDI monitor going to tell me that I don't already know that it's not sending the full signal? I need to know and understand how to fix this. Also part of the reason the CK sounds bad when controlled by the YC.

[quotePost id=121573]Yes you are correct that the YC reaches maximum 127 as designed when playing it's internal voices or in other words it's very dynamic. [/quotePost]
Your "in other words" doesn't really make sense there. A board can hit 127 and not exhibit a lot of dynamic variation; a board can fail to hit 127 and still send out a lot of dynamic variation. So which is it? (The only way to tell if it's reaching 127 is to play it into a MIDI monitor, on your computer/phone/tablet.)

[quotePost id=121573]When I MIDI cable to the SKpro and CK it doesn't appear to work correctly.
[/quotePost]
Some of your posts are a little confusing because you're loose with your "to" and "from" terminology, such that it's not always immediately clear which board's sounds you're playing from which board's keys. But based on the rest, I assume you're talking about triggering the CK sounds from the SK Pro. It would be helpful if you could strive to be a little more precise in your descriptions of what you're doing, so some of us don't have to read your post multiple times to get it. 😉

[quotePost id=121573]Seems like common sense would be that it should play exactly the same since it's a pro level board and also meant to be a controller.[/quotePost]
There is no "pro level reference" for how a keyboard should behave. Manufacturers may (or may not) tweak their sounds to optimize them for the included action, but there os no assurance they will play identically from an external keyboard. In fact, often they do not... and sometimes that can ever work to your benefit.

[quotePost id=121573]Could the MIDI cable have an issue? Can these be linked via usb MIDI or not? Could MIDI splitter cause a problem? [/quotePost]Unlikely, not without a host device in between, and unlikely, respectively. 🙂

[quotePost id=121573]Now I think the SKPpro has something crazy like 7 key sensors [/quotePost]
It only has two sensors, but it simulates more via software. From a MIDI perspective, it behaves as a simple 2-sensor board.

[quotePost id=121573] If the YC can internally play 127 or signal a hard strike it should be able to MIDI send that same signal, correct?[/quotePost]
Yes. Connect it to a MIDI monitor app and find out! 🙂

Because I don't understand it is why you're not following it. Someone mentioned 127 so I was using that as an example for max.

What is happening is no matter which board is connected to the YC or all of them, when I hit a key with force it plays exactly the same as if I hit it normally. Nothing changes whereas the other boards change dramatically went hit hard.

When I control the YC with the CK and hit a key hard it plays correctly with a loud accent or significant volume jump.

Let's say 127 is max. and I hit the YC with all my force it only plays to 90 (just guessing but for example) or whatever is triggering the jump it doesn't work. IT doesn't play any louder as compared to hitting the CK that hard causes a loud effect or even other samples to sound.

The YC is playing as if it's limited to a lower than max. level like putting a limiter on your gas pedal allowing you to go only 50mph. It sounds the same except that a soft touch does play soft. IF soft is 0 to 30 and medium is 31 to 70 and loud is 71 to 127 the YC is only going to 90 no matter how hard you strike the key.

I hooked it to the computer but I have no idea how to check the MIDI level. I'm looking for an app I guess.

I loaded the app and via my USB attached to the computer goes up to 127. How do I know why/if the MIDI transmission works even though the USB connection to the app says it's 127? I guess the computer is just reporting the facts but the CK isn't playing the facts.

If this isn't a setting and I can't find it, tried everything. If this isn't the connection, I tested it and works fine in reverse. If this isn't a signal issue because the computer says the YC is sending max 127 information then there's a problem with either the CK receiving the MIDI information like it's limited or the YC isn't actually sending it through the MIDI cable. I'll try to connect the SKpro and CK together and if those are compatible both directions via MIDI then the YC has a problem. I'm almost positive the YC had the same issue playing the SKpro. It might be a bug in the YC. The YC has plenty of dynamics when playing internally so it's not the sensors. It's in the MIDI transmission chain somehow.

Can the USBs be connected directly between boards or is that only for another device in between? I tried it and got a device error or hooked it up wrong or had the wrong cable. I'm assuming that won't work either way.

Someone who has both YC and CK handy please MIDI them together and test this for me. Play the CK using the YC keys and let me know if you have full dynamics at the top end. The CK should play identical on the YC as on it's own keys. Thank you.

Now I think the SKPpro has something crazy like 7 key sensors

I'm not certain on this since I haven't studied the SK Pro. However, the original Hammond had 9 switches per key. One per harmonic. This made the signal routing easier in the Hammond to manage the 9 different harmonics (also adjusted by drawbars). The switches for each key would physically fire off at slightly different times and you could barely press a key which wouldn't close some of the 9 switches so that/those harmonic(s) wouldn't sound for that particular keypress.

This may be what is simulated here - these 9 switches.

It's different in design and application than the "2 sensor" or "3 sensor" construction of a MIDI instrument. Although if you did have an arrangement of 9 switches that served one purpose they could be usefully leveraged for the other (simulating a "piano key" vs simulating the tonewheel organ).

In the case of the organ - those 9 switches are not at all about velocity since there's no velocity in an organ. It's just on or off. This is what I mean by the sensor (switch) count having different applications.

Pivot ...

If your YC is outputting 1-127 velocities than I would think the breakdown is on the interpretation side of those velocities at the CK. This would also mean the CK wouldn't respond well to a DAW that would send the same 1-127 velocities as a keyboard.

My 2c....

Velocity in MIDI isn't a "Harder = More". It's a "Softer = Less".

Your YC likely has Velocity Switched Samples.... higher Velocity = Different Sample & Greater Volume.

I.e. Velocity (probably) isn't modulating anything, it's just triggering different samples.

When you send Velocity value over MIDI, it's a Modulation Source.

127 is "Normal". Anything below 127 is Modulating the receiving Keyboard's parameter downwards.... assuming Velocity is assigned to that parameter... and that parameter need not be Volume (or Amp Level, or Amp Envelope Amount).

So, it's a receiving end issue. What, if anything, is Velocity assigned to on the CK? And can you change it?

If your YC is outputting 1-127 velocities than I would think the breakdown is on the interpretation side of those velocities at the CK.

I've ask OP several times to post the EXACT model number and config they are using and they won't do it.

They first said this:

I've adjusted the curve numbers including all perset types but nothing happens.

So my 'guess' is that they have modified the curve away from normal and the "Keyboard Touch" curve setting is getting them.

And on page 29 of the doc it talks about 'Touch Sensitivity' and that likely can easily reproduce OP's issue.

All we can do is guess until OP decides to provide the info needed to help them.
OP needs to do a full reset to put the instrument back to factory conditions so they are starting from a known config.

Otherwise OP, and all of us, are just wasting time.

I set the CK touch curve to "FIXED" and now it plays exactly the same as when using the YC as the controller, the velocity is lost. However someone stated that those settings are only applicable to the local board so that doesn't have any impact on MIDI transmission. But at least being "FIXED" simulates my problem with using the YC as the controller. Does this ring any bells?

You will notice once you set your CK to "FIXED" no matter how hard you hit the key is sounds the same. You can flip it back and forth to see the difference. This is what the YC is doing as a controller which makes it about useless.

You need to START OVER from the factory reset config.

I have zero confidence that you know what you've changed since you started this.

And you still haven't provided us with the EXACT model numbers and configuration you are using.

1. do a factory reset
2. tell us the exact model number of all instruments involved
3. tell us every cable (and type) you are using and how they are connected
4. tell us EVERY change you make to any instrument

Well these are only Stage boards and the CK is brand new so I've really only removed it from the box. It's the Yamaha CK61 Stage board. The other is a Yamaha YC73 stage board as well. As basic as basic gets. They are connected by a standard MIDI input to CK and output from YC. I'll try that.

The YC OS was just updated in April and the CK is 3 weeks new. I reset both instruments and nothing changed.

[quotePost id=121596]I set the CK touch curve to "FIXED" and now it plays exactly the same as when using the YC as the controller, the velocity is lost. [/quotePost]Yes... essentially that is the definition of fixed. But that is not the same as what you described before. Before, you said that it would respond to different velocities up to a certain point (the softer levels), but once you got to higher levels, it stopped responding to additional velocity changes. With fixed, it would not respond to any velocity changes, soft or hard.

[quotePost id=121596]However someone stated that those settings are only applicable to the local board so that doesn't have any impact on MIDI transmission. [/quotePost]
I hope you're not referring to one of my earlier posts there. I said it is *possible* that the velocity settings are only applied to the local sounds and not to MIDI output (I believe some boards are or can be configured that way), I didn't say it was necessarily the case in this instance, it was just one other variable to be aware of, and something you could test with a MIDI monitor, which again is I believe what I suggested.

At any rate, once you select Fixed, you can alter what Fixed velocity you want it to be sending, there's a menu option for that. So using that, you can "lock" the keys to whatever MIDI velocity you want (10, 50, 100, 127... whatever), and see how that affects the response, both for the internal sounds, and for triggering external ones.