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Some YC rotary improvements, tips, tricks

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david
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I did buy the YC73 so still supporting Yamaha.

First I went into the settings and turned off the horn by setting it to "0".

I then turned the rotor up to 100 or higher.

Then I listened to the rotor closely and turned on the Master EQ. section.

I turned up the mids to max and adjusted the sweepable dial until I got a pleasant rotor sound about the best we're going to get without an update.

I adjusted many of the dial settings like the (2) drives and tone etc. That typically has no effect on the bass rotor but does make a big difference on the horn.

When I got the rotor as pleasant as possible (it's easier to hear while the horn is completely off) I turned the horn back on sometimes to a lower volume than the default setting.

There should be a way to change the global rotor settings without having to customize each individual organ voice. If there isn't that needs to be added to the features. Or a way to copy it to all voices globally with one selection. Call it a default change. Sorry it that's possible, I just haven't looked for it yet. I assume the master eq. stays where you left it last.

I'm not sure any of the other parameters matter that much such as the speed and acceleration etc. It needs to sound good and right before getting into that stuff anyway.

I also tried to make the rotor option 2 sound less crunchy by turning the drives all the way down.

I think the rotor options should NOT add crunch or effects to the rotor sound but only provide a different spaciousness or sound stage of the rotation.

It's not really a rotor option if the sound has been manipulated because then it becomes more of a cabinet effect rather than a rotor model.

The second option should be a wider and broader stereo field with more magnification and/or intensity of the rotor behavior. I don't think it needs any crunch added to it.

How about adding a third or forth option where the LED remains solid or flashes to indicate additional options in the chain.

 
Posted : 15/02/2021 3:35 am
david
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Also make certain that the bass frequency is engaged on the organ for the rotor else you won't hear the base rotor rotating.

Same for the treble. If either frequency is off or down then you won't hear nor perceive the mixed rotation effect.

Exactly like a 2 driver speaker, if the bass speaker is off then you'll only hear the treble.

Use headphones when correcting the rotor effects. Your speaker placement will greatly influence the rotor presence.

If you are in a near field setup with close speaker placement then the rotor effect will be minimal.

If you're in a wide field speaker placement then the rotor effect will be more substantial.

The type and quality of your speakers will make a big difference.

If you're connected to a mono speaker amp in a band then you'll get minimal affect other than a wobble sound.

A physical Leslie is throwing waves out from a high and low position from a centralized point but for a simulator it likely does better in stereo with a wide separation between left and right channels.

Rarely would a stage piano be setup in true stereo on stage depending on the quality and forethought of the rigging.

 
Posted : 15/02/2021 5:37 am
david
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So once you get the EQ on point to accentuate the bass rotor and turn it up to 100 or more as described above it is all really about the bass.

The treble is very easily distinguishable even at very low volume.

The Yellow light represents the horn and the Green is the bass rotor flashing to their respective assigned speeds.

The more contrast the better the effect IMO. Observe the lights as dueling fighters. Keep them off balance.

I slowed the rate of accel & decel of the bass rotor for a longer contrast between the two competing rotations.

Once I balanced out their respective volumes and then put their rotations at odds it sounded much, much better.

I need to set this as a global default setting however so I don't have to change it for every single voice.

When you turn off the board I think the EQ. stays off when powering back up so remember to turn it back on.

It really helps power the organ rotor effect.

It think the Leslie has a 12 or 15 inch rotor woofer so you're going to need to call upon power at replicate that not to mention have some powerful bass speakers to do the work.

 
Posted : 15/02/2021 6:06 am
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Have you heard of the phrase 'You can't make silk purse out of a sow's ear' ? ...
You can 'tweak' the current YC internal rotary settings all you like, it still won't sound very good, sadly.
It is bad ... I know it, you know it -- Yamaha know it!
We're all hopeful they're going to introduce an update soon (it's been over a year now since the YC was released) but I'm beginning to wonder whether they are having problems ?(Yamaha don't have a great history with Leslie sims)...
Maybe they need to eat 'humble pie' a bit, and ask IK Multimedia how they've achieved the excellent Leslie effect on their software B3 ? -- or perhaps licence Neo Instruments Vent 2 effect?...

 
Posted : 16/02/2021 9:25 am
david
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I'm not an organist but I'm wondering about this topic.

We all know nothing can replicate a real Leslie sitting in the room next to us.

The rotor is a model or simulation attempting to replicate 2 sounds moving in a room in a circular motion.

One is the bass and the other is the treble which moves faster than the base.

The Yamaha model has all of those components including the bass, the treble, the different speeds, the acceleration/deceleration, fast/slow etc.

A real Leslie in moving in 3 dimensions. A simulator can't move in 3 directions coming from a 2D set of speakers.

I can hear and test the Yamaha effect as I described and it does replicate these motions.

How could it do it differently to sound like 3 dimensions and sound more authentic?

It's just an effect and I can hear it doing what it's supposed to do sounding like swirling rotor & horn.

Everyone praises the tone quality or simulation of the organs so this must only be the rotor effect behaving contrary to what it's supposed to replicate.

So what is it supposed to sound like? Isn't it all really subjective to what sounds good, acceptable or best?

Is it so complicated to produce that organ boards can't have 10 options to chose from? I mean the effects section has 30 to chose from so why not the rotor?

So now I Segway into another question:

Why ONLY replicate a Leslie but why not create all new rotor type effects since this is the year 2021?

We always think inside the box like we're stuck only replicating things of the past.

Or we're thinking this doesn't sound like a Leslie. Why not call it a Billy and create something brand new and even better?

Why can't an organ morph into a new 2021 style? Why does it have to be a Hammond of transistor? Let's get jiggy with it and create all new organs types.

The FM engine alone has endless possibilities.

Why are there only 6, why not 30 in the presets? Where are the large pipes and cathedrals along with the all new creations. This is an organ instrument correct?

I guess we (they) just aren't visionaries.

With modern technology we should have 50 organs available with 30 rotor effects to chose from for different spaces and venues.

It's all about creativity and unlimited possibilities. Walt Disney made the magic so can't the engineer, designer and the CEO figure this out on a keyboard? It's not rocket science.

So what if they add 30 rotor variations and everyone finds a few they prefer.

How difficult and expensive is a rotor simulation using modern day technology?

It can not be that difficult however it's taken Yamaha a year and still nada even with the 73/88 release. It must be nearly impossible.

 
Posted : 16/02/2021 2:33 pm
Antony
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How could it do it differently to sound like 3 dimensions and sound more authentic?

Similar to Home Theatre "Surround Sound" from a single, stationary, sound bar.

There's an effect on the MODX called Auto-Pan which is pretty amazing through headphones. It will make your keyboard sound like its flying over your head, landing behind you then flying around your head like a circling Police Helicopter.

My tiny understanding of this,... it does this by splitting the frequency bands and then modulating delay (really short <10ms), phase, and pitch for each band giving the sense that the source is moving. This is all controlled by software.

You will find it is used in Video Games a lot too. Its an aural Virtual Reality.

I often wondered why these techniques are not employed in Rotating Speaker (the Leslie is just one of many) effects.

You are right also about real Leslies. They are quite spooky because the sound feels like it is coming from all around you.

 
Posted : 16/02/2021 3:28 pm
david
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So Yamaha should go ask for pointers from game designers. Back in the day we had some archaic things called physical surround speakers.

The SKpro has a real Leslie connection in case you own the real thing.

The sound is coming from all angles because the waves are being spun out centrifugally and then it returns as it rebounds or reflects off surrounding surfaces.

It has feedback that could be muddy depending on the closeness of quarters of the space it's in.

This means we also need room modeling to go with the circumstances or environment.

 
Posted : 17/02/2021 12:38 am
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Prominent Member
 

This means we also need room modeling to go with the circumstances or environment.

To some extent, the actual characteristics of the room you're playing in will provide that. That is, a stereo simulation in a given room could, in theory, come close to what a real Leslie would sound like in that same room. But a related point is that people have mentioned how certain Leslie simulators seem to better capture the sound of a Leslie in your room, while other seem to be aiming more for capturing what a Leslie sounds like when it is miked up, as it would be when recorded, or when amplified into a house PA system.

 
Posted : 17/02/2021 2:37 pm
david
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Good point about what exactly are the circumstances that the rotor model is attempting to replicate.

So it's all really subjective as to what is a good model. Yamaha engineers might be replicating something that some other people aren't looking for in that particular simulation.

Really the options are just too limited and more simulations should be provided because that's the whole point to a simulation.

If a simulation is only replicating one circumstance then it's not really a good simulator.

For example Reverb might have 4 or more different room options that all simulate a variety of circumstances.

So it's kind of short sighted to build an organ simulator that doesn't simulate several different circumstances or environments.

They need rotor effect large/small room, rotor effect cathedral, rotor effect small sanctuary, rotor effect miked near/far, etc.

I know on the SKpro you can edit every single parameter including mic positions. Not sure whether that includes the rotor simulation.

 
Posted : 17/02/2021 6:57 pm
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