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Still nada from Yamaha on fixing the rotary simulation?

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I've only experienced the later on my very limited CP1.

Interesting. I'm not sure that means it somehow has "better FM" per se... it could also be all the other audio electronics in the board that are contributing to the difference. After all, you are talking about a $5k board that has a mere handful of sounds. So there damn well better be some really high end stuff going on in there! It's good to know that you can hear (feel) it.

 
Posted : 21/03/2021 11:54 pm
david
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The long detailed article about the CP1 said it had loads of technology some not necessarily revealed.

It's a different animal with no sound switching with full velocity and dynamics. Yamaha still makes these too. 2010 was the release I think.

Sometimes you can find them used for around 2K which is a steal. It's like buying all 17 original instruments for $117 each.

 
Posted : 22/03/2021 2:51 am
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Sometimes you can find them used for around 2K which is a steal. It's like buying all 17 original instruments for $117 each.

Well, echoing what I think was a complaint of yours about the YC, you're not really getting a DX7 (or any kind of "complete" FM instrument) in the CP1... you're getting basically just one kind of FM sound (electric piano, in a few variations). Say what you will about the YC, but it has far more different FM sounds than that! (The YC actually has a pretty decent range of the FM sounds the DX7 was most known for... besides the EPs... it has FM basses, synth leads, bell sounds, harmonica, brass, strings, guitar.)

 
Posted : 23/03/2021 4:36 am
david
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I still think Yamaha can't fix the rotary sim within the system constraints else they'd have done it by now.

What if it's more of an embedded hardware function or software inside unchangeable hardware? Same difference.

If it's not then change it 3 or 4 times and let everyone try the 3 or 4 options? Isn't that the real limitation with these OS updates?

Can they selectively change something or does the entire system and everything on it have to zero out and then reload from scratch?

Customization (meaning ease of replacement) would have been smart in the area of the rotary sim since it's the heart and soul of the organ effect.

Did they box themselves into an escapeless corner? Responding that the issue is being "evaluated" doesn't imply they will or can change it.

If it's a function of an editable program or software model then perhaps it can be replaced.

BUT it's a "stage" board style system architecture not meant to be changed much if at all.

I think it's not going to be changed at this point. We get to live with it or leave it.

 
Posted : 24/03/2021 12:23 am
Jason
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It's DSP - so essentially software.

 
Posted : 24/03/2021 1:37 am
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Getting back to the OP of this thread...

IdeaScale is just a platform to blow off steam like Yamaha cares that much about our complaints or wishes. I don't buy it as legit.

I have had the thought before that it would be nice if there were more frequent acknowledgement of the suggestions there, even if most posts just got one of a number of stock answers, along the lines of "this is not feasible within the existing architecture but we can consider it for future products," or "we aren't sure there is enough benefit to this to offset the effort and complication it could add to the board, but could revisit if there are enough upvotes," or "this may have some potential, we will look into its feasibility," etc. But absent that, something interesting has happened recently... about a dozen of the YC61 suggestions have been recategorized, either into "refine" or "assessment" (which both imply they are at least being considered), or "reserve" (which seems to mean "not going to happen" or that it's been addressed to the extent they expect to address it). So someone there at least put in the effort to respond, somewhat, to the suggestions people have put forth.

 
Posted : 23/04/2021 2:01 am
david
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It's almost June and still not much activity and no OS update action. I check it daily.

I agree that just leaving people (paying Yamaha customers) hanging endlessly and "we might get to it and we might not" is still annoying.

I know that other manufacturers do the same but when we're pointed toward Ideascale then weight is applied to that recommendation meaning it is perceived by us to matter and that it matters to Yamaha because it exists.

My point that if it exists then their response must also exist. "You'll get it if and when you get it" is essentially the same as not having Ideascale altogether.

I've stopped going there but are there replies going on or not?

 
Posted : 22/05/2021 3:34 am
Jason
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Checking less often may be a way to manage.

 
Posted : 22/05/2021 10:25 pm
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david, I think you're beginning to understand the magic of opaqueness and obfuscation offered by third party, 'democratic' forums like IdeaScale.

Remember those suggestions boxes you'd see in restaurants and hotels a few years (decades) ago?

These are the modern day black hole versions for user feedback and corporate responsiveness.

Also, "have a nice day".

 
Posted : 25/05/2021 4:28 am
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I have to say I really don't understand Yamaha's logic on the rotary update ....

They decide to introduce their first real 'clone wheel' instrument:
• We get a pretty good organ engine (especially if you tweak it! )
• We get proper drawbars
• We get a waterfall keyboard
• We get a rotary sim with all sorts of adjustable parameters -- horn speed, rotor speed , acceleration, balance, etc...

All the important things you would expect in a Hammond /Leslie 'clone' ....

Sadly though, this 'multi-adjustable' rotary sim sounds awful - however you try and 'tweak' it-- especially on fast speed.

This kind of thing can make or break the reputation of a stage keyboard, and yet a year on and still Yamaha have not issued any update on the rotary sim.

I can't believe they don't care -- the YC series 'bad rotary sim' is now really quite well known and must be affecting sales by now?

I find it extraordinary that one of the world's most important keyboard manufacturers can't deal with this problem.

We know it can be done (IK Multimedia , Neo Ventilator) Can it be true that a big company like Yamaha really doesn't have the resources to sort this out?

I've had my YC61 for a year now. Love it for the most part, but if it hadn't been for my Neo Vent 2 it would have been sold on, months ago....

 
Posted : 26/05/2021 8:55 pm
Jason
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The distance between Yamaha's rotary sim and the competition was there before the YC existed. Same feedback - although one may argue that an organ-centric keyboard matters more to have a competitive rotary sim. Still, the well to pull from for rotary is comes from the same land where Montage and previous keyboards have pulled the rotary sim from.

As a Montage user, I'd love to be envying YC's rotary sim similarly to how I envy some of the new pianos samples in the CP. However, as of yet, that's one less greener grass on the other side.

I would hope Yamaha is gearing up for a surprise at some unknown date. History has shown that enough feedback on a singular feature tends to promote action. You know the team of musicians at Yamaha are well aware of what the market offers. No cards will be tipped before the time, however.

 
Posted : 26/05/2021 10:57 pm
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We know it can be done (IK Multimedia , Neo Ventilator) Can it be true that a big company like Yamaha really doesn't have the resources to sort this out?

I sympathize with your disappointment, but saying those companies have done it doesn't really mean anything. It's not just a matter of "resources." For one thing, it has to be acheivable within the hardware that already exists in the machine (while that hardware is still also doing everything else it is doing). Vent does what it does with hundreds of dollars worth of dedicated hardware just to produce the one effect. IK can make use of the resources of an entire computer. (Even the least expenisve iPad has more processing capabilities than a keyboard company could put in any moderately priced keyboard.) Second, there's still an "art" to these things, not merely a "science." Other high quality pedals have come out since the Vent, but none sound as good. Just the fact that someone did it doesn't automatically mean someone else can do it if they just "commit the resources."

I think that there has been enough noise made about it that we'll likely see see an upgrade to the YC rotary effect, I'd be surprised if they were not working on making it better. Though I'd be pleasantly surprised if it ended up being Vent/IK quality.

 
Posted : 27/05/2021 12:27 am
david
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We're almost to July. Uhmmm no real OS updates or repairs/corrections. Yamaha dominates the marketplace of complacency. Glad I have my SKPro instead.

 
Posted : 26/06/2021 7:10 pm
Jason
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Sometimes expectations outpace responses.

 
Posted : 27/06/2021 10:57 pm
david
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Or Yamaha boxed themselves into a corner with their stage board philosophy. Essentially they are unconcerned about improving, expanding or repairing stage boards.

Stage boards are a one and done, end game platform and what you buy is all you get. I should just steer clear of their stage boards. Only the synths get any love & attention and that's far behind what Roland is now offering.

Yamaha is getting left in the dust. Still good in quality but left behind in other appealing areas I think.

Companies that add a little extra are getting most of the attention these days. SKpro is a blast while YC is a bit boring in comparison. It is more affordable but nothing anyone can't save up for.

 
Posted : 29/06/2021 9:36 pm
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