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Yamaha YC61 vs Reface CP E. Pianos

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Topic starter

Could someone tell me if the electric pianos present on the Yamaha Reface CP are the same as those on the Yamaha YC61?
For example:
Is Reface's RD1 the YC's 78Rd?
Is Reface's Wr the YC's Wr Warm?
Is Reface's CP the YC's CP80 2?

If you know, answer me, thank you.

Posted : 27/04/2022 5:03 pm
Posts: 7943
Illustrious Member

Let me start with a truthful answer: I don't know.

Now let me speculate.

The Reface CP specs that it uses SCM. That's a tone generator engine unlike what's used in the Yamaha YC61. Actually the Reface CP uses AWM2 and SCM. Since I couldn't find a reference of which tones use SCM, AWM2, or a combination - I can't say for sure that the RD1 sound uses pure AWM2, pure SCM, or a combination. I can say that there's a certain likelihood that the differences in available engines would mean these two devices have different Rhodes sounds. Not to mention other key differences in specs.

There are no obvious clues because SCM allows for, in electric pianos, changing the hammer hardness and strike position. None of which is available in the Reface CP. With a 50% of being right, I'd guess RD1/Wr/CP uses SCM.

Posted : 27/04/2022 8:39 pm
Posts: 806
Prominent Member

[quotePost id=116392] Since I couldn't find a reference of which tones use SCM, AWM2, or a combination - I can't say for sure that the RD1 sound uses pure AWM2, pure SCM, or a combination.[/quotePost]
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that there is no pure SCM piano/EP. They are either AWM2 (samples) or AWM2+SCM (samples plus modeling). AFAIK, none of the SCM CP models had sounds that were pure models with no samples whatsoever.

Posted : 28/04/2022 1:41 am
Posts: 7943
Illustrious Member

Well, the CP1 was a $6k flagship "Rolls Royce" keyboard and the Reface CP is a $400 economy car. There's a big difference in just about everything. The Reface CP is a nod to the CP line - as other Refaces are nods to their respective larger cousins.

I didn't mean to assume the Reface uses full-blown SCM. Only that I believe the electric pianos employ this technology and therefore would be different than the YC that does not have any SCM.

Without some form of official response - the best route is to listen to both if you can. Use the YC61 as the MIDI controller for the reface so you're using the same keybed for both instruments. Plug both into the same speakers/mixer/preamp/etc. (minimize differences in the sound reinforcement). Then listen. Both to the raw sound and also how the sound response to the keyboard (the feel).

I think SCM has a chance of making the two instruments "feel" different. Also, the output stage of both instruments make different compromises and I would think the Reface is at a disadvantage. Even if internally say they both used AWM2 and the same samples - the output stage could do a lot to "color" the experience.

When I played the CP1 back when it came out - I was also trying other keyboards and decided SCM wasn't something I could take advantage of in my own playing. I spent a lot of time trying to like the modeling aspects of the CP1 - but I just couldn't "feel" what the instrument was delivering. Truth be told, I'm not very finesse in my playing. The reason why I'm covering this is that you may or may not be able to tell a difference between the two instruments either -- even if there's a "big" difference.

Posted : 28/04/2022 3:01 am
Posts: 0
Eminent Member

Here's a description of the Reface's tone generation, might be useful for those who can extrapolate from it:

Posted : 28/04/2022 11:14 am
Posts: 0
Active Member

Might as well read my post about Spectral Component Modelling, too: 😀

Yamaha's SCM encompasses more than what is broadly known as "spectral modelling," especially the CP1. Someone noted that spectral modelling has more in common with psychoacoustic techniques like MP3 than straightforward sampling. Time is subdivided into frames which encode frequency domain information. It lets the sound dynamically evolve. Thus, spectral modelling can be regarded as a form of compression.

Spectral modelling still requires a significant amount of data (the frequency domain information) although the amount of necessary physical storage is much smaller than sampling. Yes, the CP1 has heavy-hitter processing: three SWP51L tone generators and an SWX02 host. The CP1 has 128MBytes of storage for spectral data -- a ridiculously small amount of memory for such a high-quality piano voice!

The compression afforded by spectral modelling let Yamaha build an exceptional instrument within the memory limitations of the earlier generation -- and memory-limited -- SWP51L. Same can be said for the Reface CP, which is based on the SWX08 combined host and tone generation processor. There's a reason why Reface CP doesn't do SCM acoustic piano... 😉

Hope this information helps -- pj

Posted : 02/05/2022 4:50 pm

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