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Disappointment from 2.5 update

27 Posts
8 Users
Posts: 541
Honorable Member

Lol for the captcha Andrea, why not πŸ˜‰

So here he's a short video i record yesterday when preparing and testing, it's not in the same quality than i use for usual Moessieurs video, it's direct audio recording from the cam, no subtitle so i speak English why my French accent, so the video is not in public status on the Moessieurs Youtube Channel, its "unlisted" video from the channel πŸ˜‰

You will see and hear that the sustain is working fine if the performances you change from one to another respect the SSS status (the two performances need to respect the SSS status).

Test from montage with the montage sustain pedal, test from the Motif XF with the Motif XF sustain pedal.
Motif XF is connect thru midi out to the Montage midi in and use Motif XF as a master keyboard.

CFX Padded and preset performances around are used, it's a better choice for the video to hear the sustain, it's the same thing for Concert Grand preset and others around i test also.

Setting for controllers is "Reset", it's works of course also in the same way with setting "Hold" for sustain.

As i already write Expression keep value is fine with setting "hold" if the pedal is connect directly in the Montage.
It does not keep the value if the expression pedal is connect on the master keyboard to allow control of others rack/keyboard/VST in the same time that you play your Montage from the Master Keyboard.

Ps i play on stage in two bands and i'm also DJ, for DJ i never use the Montage and i will not try, it's a different way to work, there is not only Montage users who are playing in band, they play at home and they need drum's and arpeggio to compose or take pleasure to recreate cover song's at home they like to play.

Posted : 05/08/2018 10:37 am
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter

JOEL Today I've tested sustain pedal yamaha FC3A directly connected to Montage and if I'm in a preset performance CFX Concert and i press sustain, if I switch to next performance CFX Stage keep pressing sustain the sustain doesn't act on a new CFX Stage sound. So as I said a lot of time this function doesn't work.
You contuinue to ignore my indication and think only to defend montage to what is not possible to defend because it doesn't work.
Try to connect different gear to montage from yamaha gear and than tell us as it work.
As I said before not only yamaha exist to the word. This is your chouse .....good for you but Montage doesn't work fine with the aspect that I underline...
Please reed again what I wrote....I DON?T TELL ABOUT SSS!!!
If you like touzzi touzzi new montage Motif xf sound goo for me most of all are without sense....may say that without that a montage defender like you because maybe are payed from yamaha insist to have last word?????

Posted : 05/08/2018 10:47 am
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter

By the way I can't change part pitch more that 24 semitone but I have a lot of touzzy touzzy new preset!!! Most of modern and old gear can change pitch 48 semitone.....maybe because engeener of other company think first to musicians and than to touzzy DJ

Posted : 05/08/2018 11:06 am
Posts: 541
Honorable Member

You do not need to be agressive, you have a position, i have one other but it's not only a position, like you i test.

Yes i'm in collaboration with Yamaha Music Europe but i do not work for Yamaha, i'm not pay buy Yamaha, i have a work witch is not Yamaha and all i done for Moessieurs since 2005 is on my free time, i'm free to write there is a bug if there is.

I agree with you that Expression from a master keyboard does not work, you have seen πŸ˜‰

When a user report something wrong, i test, if it's a bug, i report to Yamaha, if it's not a bug i show it is not.

You too, take time to see what i'm writing on my previous post :

it's the same thing for Concert Grand preset and others around i test also.

So like you do not trust me i record just now with the cam in hand the change from CFX Concert preset piano performance to CFX Stage, and the sustain work perfectly from the montage or from the Motif Xf each with he's own sustain pedal.

I have not a magic Montage, it is on OS 2.50.2, you can see it's work for me without any problem.

The fact is to see why it is not working for you.

I have also test the sustain pedal settings on Utility > Settings > Sound ; with each of the 3 settings it's always work for me.

The hold or reset setting for controller do not change nothing, it's work for the two.

I try with the FC3A connect directly on Montage or with Roland DP pedal, it's work for the two.

At this step i do not see why it is not working for you with the FC3A connect directly to the Montage or from your master keyboard.

Like i have already write, i play in two bands, for more details, more rock and pop rock style i do not use "touzzi touzzi" sounds , i do not use arpeggio on stage except for some very quick riff i cannot play myself, in this case i made myself the arpeggio and do not use presets arpeggios, i do not need.
I do not clain why there is oriental sounds for example on Montage because i do not use them, they are here, nice for users who need them, there is several type of users, the Montage purpose several type of sounds for everybody, it's great,if i need someting special i edit presets to have it.

Yes semi tones are limited to +/-24, yes it would be great if we can do directly i will be happy too, actually when i need i edit element tone +/- 12, it' not the quick way i agree but it's work too.

I do not want to have least word, but as you write the function do not work and by testing, it's work i try to show you that it is and help to find why it is not working for you.

If you do not want my help, tell me, i stop.


Posted : 05/08/2018 1:29 pm
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter

Joel I see your video and you don't undesteand the problem. You don't do what I say that montage fault.
Please read better my sentence!!!
I've a video to show it....but is 65Mb ....what can I put it on this forum?
I don't talk about SSS I talk about sustain. If you are in a performance and are with sustain activated and pass to the next one keeping sustain activated the old performance keep soun in sustain but the new performance choosed doesn't act with sustain still you push of sustain and than push on again sustain.....I have a video to show you but is too big....Haw can I put on forum?
My clam is because in this form there is a couple of user that jet say to the other that are in fault before be sure to understeand well and without stay in front of gear of other this case you are one of this kind of user.....and I ask....where is your convenience in saying to other user that are in fault if you are not interested in yamaha marketing?

Posted : 05/08/2018 3:09 pm
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter

Ps The site keep asking Captcha for any you trust in me?

Posted : 05/08/2018 3:10 pm
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter

That's what I mean!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted : 05/08/2018 3:40 pm
Posts: 541
Honorable Member

Andrea ok you're right, this time i understand this point, my apologies.
If the sustain is already "on", the new performance do not take in count the sustain.

Posted : 05/08/2018 4:09 pm
Posts: 0
New Member

I have complained about the very same thing regarding sustain. It is dead simple:
You play a piano performance, you hold the sustain pedal down (the sound sustains), you switch to a new sound, that new sound doesn't sustain because the sustain is reset. So, when you switch from a piano sound for example to an electric piano sound, you loose the natural blending from one sound to the other one.
All my Kurzweils behaved correctly in that regard, Kronos switches musically useful, the Roland Fantom G also doesn't interrupt the sustain CC and Nord who got the seamless switching also got it right. When I say right, I mean musically right and not technically right which is used here often as an argument that something works as intended (regardless whether it makes sense this way or not). Why Yamaha can't copy good implementations from others, especially since they are among the latest who implemented SSS into their keyboard, is out of my understanding.

When it comes to the updates, IMHO even the 2.0 update absolutely didn't deserve the big number jump for basically four new features. This latest one also doesn't give anything so special that it would deserve the 0.5 jump. I understand that we all have different wishes, but I have somehow the feel that Yamaha puts in features which were never been required from a majority of the users. I mean, user audition phrases??? Who needs self created audition phrases? Also, panel lock function for "extra safety" while performing live, but no visual indicator for transpose status...
Saying all that, I'm still very happy with my montage, but the updates don't really make me exciting.

A final thing, but this is not really the right topic: I'm extremely unhappy with this half baked forum software. I never had even remotely so many problems to use any forum since internet becomes widely available to the world. I always have to refresh the page, it never memorizes my status and often even I already signed in, I cant reply because the reply window is not shown (Macbook Air, latest MacOS, Safari). With the same computer and os I don't have the slightest problem to use any other forum out there, of any kind.

Posted : 05/08/2018 4:30 pm
Posts: 0
Eminent Member

If you are in a performance and are with sustain activated and pass to the next one keeping sustain activated the old performance keep soun in sustain but the new performance choosed doesn't act with sustain still you push of sustain and than push on again sustain.


I tried it passing from the Bosendorfer piano to the CFX with the FC3A pedal down and it doesn't work... I can hear the Bosendorfer's notes sustained, but if I play the CFX there's no sustain at all. I have to lift off my foot and then push again the pedal.

Posted : 05/08/2018 4:51 pm
Posts: 0
Active Member

My 2 cents: people may or may not be happy about the upgrades in 2.5. I think the important thing is that the uodates keep coming. Yamaha is under no obligation whatsoever to provide those updates. People bought the Montage as is and Yamaha only is obliged to fix bugs. Every feature which is added is a free bonus to those who own the Montage already. Whatever Yamaha do they have to decide under pure business aspects. Every feature is an investment and they need to justify that investment. They do it to get more users to buy the Montage and to make sure that the Montage and thus the Yamaha brand in general has a good reputation.

Yamaha could decide to make paid updates. They could stop doing updates as well. What they do is decided by the product management based on those business aspects. I personally hope they continue with the free updates!

Personally I hoped for other new features but the remote control is huge for me and certainly for many users who asked for it. And yes, it could have been there from the start but that would have required more resources and / or later release. Again, a business decision and of course product management will learn and adapt over time.

The 2.0 release had the Motif compatibility and again that’s huge for many people.

The sample robot (free!) - if it is ever coming out - is yet another very useful addition. And the John Melas Waveform Editor which was certainly done with some help from Yamaha is really great for me!

In summary, even if not all (or even most) of my wishes have been done, a lot have been done, some without me even knowing that a wished for them ?.

Note that what is a bug or not is certainly not a very sharp definition.

The behavior with SSS and the sustain pedal is not a bug in my point of view. I personally don’t like it but it is a defined behavior and some people may actually like it that way - I don’t. I am sure if it would be changed that the sustain is always sounding for the new performance some people would complain! So this is a feature request and the request would be to make this configurable - per performance. Similar for many other things people perceive as bugs.

In summary, I am extremely happy with the way the Montage has evolved after I bought it shortly after its launch. I hope for much more to come, of course ?.

BTW: The most important point in this forum is to stay friendly, polite and persistent to request features. That’s unfortunately lacking some times. That’s certainly a bug ?. Thanks to many people like Joel who are very helpful and always friendly.

Posted : 05/08/2018 5:20 pm
Posts: 7919
Illustrious Member

Glad to see the forum is caught up on the issue voiced.

1) Put a brick on the sustain pedal so it's smashed down from now from eternity. If you started with CFX + FM EP then this piano sound will have sustain and all notes will ring out legato without the virtual felts dampening the strings.

2) Switch to another performance - any of them. The brick is still on the sustain pedal. Say now you switch to a Rhodes EP sound. The Rhodes will not sustain - the virtual dampening felts will deaden the strings when you let go of keys even though the brick is still on the sustain pedal. You've got to take the brick off and put it back on in order for the Rhodes to start lifting the virtual dampening felts away from the tines to create the "sustain sound".

The notion that if this is fixed, it should be configurable also seems to be agreed upon.

There's lots of great feedback from the forum - thanks for everyone's contribution.

... and version numbers. Keep in mind marketing has as much control over the version numbers as any other team. A release around NAMM with at least one long-awaited change bumped up the major rev. I don't always agree either. v1.50 to v1.51 made a lot of sense - others can be debated. The nice thing is that my Montage does not care what the version number is, was, or will be. It accepts all with equal discrimination (none).

Posted : 05/08/2018 8:17 pm
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