On the manual search page I didn't see Montage+. I can say, however, if you type "Elephant" and press return to get the result that no Elephant exists - then when you start to type "ele" your elephant will show up. Not because it's been added my Yamaha - but because it's cached from your previous search. Clear cache and see if you find Montage+ anymore.

By the way - "sneak peek" has received the touch of an editor (as in news paper editor) so I can stop [sic]'ing.

Speculation that this is the AN1x screen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2nKz_gx2Jw

Some vendor jumped the gun with a list of Cubase 13 features, We should see MIDI 2.0 all around.

The Iconica Sketch features and orchestral library looks interesting. Wonder if anything was adopted in the new Montage?

Yet another rhetorical question... 😉

-- pj

I don't disagree with the conclusions (that Montage will have AN-X primarily) - however, in the latest "Scott" video I disagree with some of the assumptions. I think listening to the sounds is an OK way to infer AN-X. I think the trademark registration is a good way. I'm not sure about the colors of the screen signaling anything in particular as the Mixer Routing screen on Montage uses the same color scheme except the arrows there are grey for Montage and the arrows in the M Navigation screen are orange. Orange, BTW, is not a color in the AN1x color scheme. Not that this isn't showing AN-X ... but there's not any strong signals that it would be.

The video says montage doesn't have all of these stages in the signal flow. That's not true. The documentation doesn't present a schematic view like older synths used to do with all of the stages shown. However, all of those stages are inside. Filter - check (for AWM or FM-X currently), Amplitude - check (ditto), PEG/FEG/AEG - check. And so on. It's all in there just not laid out in "schematic" form.

I think the reverb value of 512 (as a center point) instead of 64 as today shows we are using 10-bit resolution on parameters instead of the current 7-bit 0-127. This doesn't necessarily mean MIDI 2.0 (Roland without MIDI 2.0 had higher than MIDI 1.0 resolution for their parameters) but control messages by MIDI 2.0 can support 32 bits of data - so certainly MIDI 2.0 accommodates 10-bit resolution parameters. The MIDI 2.0 supports property exchange to gather controller resolution - so certainly use of 10-bits would be supported and facilitated by MIDI 2.0.

If there is MIDI 2.0 is in the box, then velocity gets more bits too. This makes for more expressive dynamics. Integration between different MIDI 2.0 devices is much more seamless due to property exchange as well. It's a heavy lift to code up - but hardware could be as flexible as software DAWs.

I do have to remember that Yamaha stays behind the curve. Even though the rest of the industry is releasing MIDI 2.0 to the world and Yamaha itself participated in a MIDI 2.0 plug-and-play using Montage and Motif --- I'm still not holding my breath and wouldn't be surprised if MIDI 2.0 wasn't part of the package. That said - there are lots of reasons why including MIDI 2.0 would be possible and prudent.

Google search - a week ago there was a vendor with a Cubase 13 page. It's down now - but you can find all of the information summarized on a variety of forums.

I would use google and quote "cubase 13" (to search as one phrase) and limit the time scale to 1 week. That'd give you your choice of sources to glean.

Edit: Adding - when you do this you'll probably run into a link to the said vendor's now removed Cubase 13 page. Put that address in archive.org and voila. Now you more or less have the original skinny with no filters. Archive.org still has it cached.

I think the reverb value of 512 (as a center point) instead of 64 as today shows we are using 10-bit resolution on parameters instead of the current 7-bit 0-127. This doesn't necessarily mean MIDI 2.0

As far as I know MIDI 1 only supports 7-bit resolution. So not sure how 10 bit resolution would be supported unless MIDI 2 was involved.

I covered that already. The Fantom does it and is not MIDI 2.0.

The way you would implement this is you would make the extra bits available internally between the knob and the parameter. And then for external MIDI control of the same parameter you would scale it to fit the internal bit depth. All MIDI 1.0 compliant. MIDI is between devices - not necessarily inside devices. Even Montage has had product support emphasize that some connections are internally direct and not tied (or shackled, or ..) to MIDI.

And then for external MIDI control of the same parameter you would scale it to fit the internal bit depth.

I understand what you are saying.

But 10 bit precision is 8 times 7 bit precision. So a value difference of 1 in 7 bit precision becomes a value difference of 8 in 10 bit precision.

That means that you can't program precise velocity values in 10 bits and get them to store properly in only 7 bits because you lose precision in either direction you convert.

As I'm sure you know a lot of the current zoned arpeggio presets use precise velocity values to control the zoning. So using a mixed-precision system could complicate those things.

A NOTE ON even contains a velocity value. MIDI 1 can only store a 7 bit value even when using UMP format.

MIDI 2 can store 15 bit values.

See the image where it says 'Here is a comparison of a MIDI 1.0 Note On message in the byte stream format and a MIDI 2.0 Note On message in UMP Format.'
https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/details-about-midi-2-0-midi-ci-profiles-and-property-exchange

If the new Cubase 13 supports MIDI 2 and is being prepped for release it seems that could make it more likely that the new Montage will support it also.

Another area where only time will tell what they are supporting.

For me MIDI 2 support would be enough of a reason to upgrade simply because it will be necessary to learn MIDI 2 and how to integrate it into existing studio architectures that must
also still use MIDI 1.

I know there's speculation about ANx but Saul already commented that it's included via and I assume his insider info.

This information was gathered on the web from a vendor who was a little trigger-happy, I reckon. Notice that Cubase 13 includes MIDI 2.0 support. Since Cubase 13 will apparently be released in the not too distant future, it makes a lot of sense that the new Montage M would also include MIDI 2.0 compatibility. FWIW, I purchased Cubase 12 Pro not too long ago and if things pan out with Cubase 13 and the new Montage I guess I'll have to upgrade to Cubase 13 in the process in order to take advantage of MIDI 2.0 within Cubase 13 and the new Montage. Que Sera, Sera. Needless to say, I should have waited until Cubase 13 launched. Hindsight is always 20/20.

WHAT’S NEW IN CUBASE 13?

CHANNEL TAB
Mix on the go
The new channel tab in the Project window gives you direct access to your mix, without leaving the arrangement.
The new design means you can intuitively find what you need, letting you mix on the go in a compact, per channel view.
(PRO-ARTIST-ELEMENTS)

MIXCONSOLE
Slick, streamlined, focused
The MixConsole has been given a fresh overhaul with a slick, streamlined design to help you focus on your mix.
(PRO-ARTIST-ELEMENTS)

RANGE TOOL
Increase your range
The Range tool is one of the most powerful tools in Cubase and it’s now available in the Key Editor as well as the Drum Editor.
(PRO-ARTIST-ELEMENTS)

EDITOR
A new editor experience
Edit multiple parts from within the Key Editor and Drum Editor, switch between tracks with the Visibility tab and maintain an overview with the new Track display
(PRO)

VOCAL PRODUCTION
The ultimate vocal chain
Vocal processing is an art of its own, taking a lot of expertise and experience to master the different processing steps. The VocalChain plug-in provides dedicated modules for each step, helping to turn your recordings into professional-sounding vocal tracks.
(PRO-ARTIST)

CHORD PADS
Progress your progressions
The new chord pads make it easy to find creative chord progressions. New presets give you excellent starting points and enhanced functions make it even simpler to create unique music.
(PRO-ARTIST-ELEMENTS)

ORCHESTRAL LIBRARΥ
Sketch out your scores
Iconica Sketch allows everyone from beginners to professional composers to create full orchestral scores of the highest quality with 140 articulations for 34 instruments in a compact 5GB library.
(PRO-ARTIST-ELEMENTS)

SAMPLER TRACK
Τweak it
The Sampler Track is even more creative, thanks to stunning new Spectral Warp modes for extreme manipulation and powerful envelope creation.
(PRO-ARTIST-ELEMENTS)

VOCODER
Τhe return of a legend
Create classic robotic vocals or add analog flavor to your instruments with the legendary Steinberg Vocoder. Use up to 24 filter bands, sidechain input, and enjoy in-depth control over the sound.
(PRO-ARTIST)
COMPRESSION
Compression with character
Black Valve is a classic tube compressor with lots of warmth and character. Its sonic detail makes this tribute to one of the most iconic studio processors really stand out
(PRO)

EQUALIZER
Add class with frequency
Two new equalizers, the EQ-P1A and the EQ-M5, add a classy sound to your productions.
(PRO-ARTIST)

COMPRESSION
Be a vocal specialist
The new VoxComp is a compressor specifically designed for vocals, gently taming your recordings without compromising clarity, transients, or expression.
(PRO)

SAMPLE PACKS
Creative starting points
Be inspired by five exclusive new sample packs by Grammy-winning producer Beat Butcha, creative mastermind Sharooz, and acclaimed sample boutiques 91Vocals and Touch Loops.
(PRO-ARTIST-ELEMENTS)

STEP & MIDI INPUT - The Step and MIDI Input features are now more even powerful. Modify note lengths on the fly and add voices on top with the new polyphonic note input feature.
KEY EDITOR - MIDI CCs can now be recorded in simplified ramps to make it quicker and easier for editing the controller events afterward
TRACK VERSIONS FOR VIDEO - Working with new video edits is now more convenient with new Track Versions for the VideoTrack.
START MODES - Do you want to start from the cycle marker, the last position or your selection? Configure where playback starts to precisely match your workflow.
TRANSPORT BAR - Easily adjust the project tempo to the beat with the new Tap Tempo feature in the Transport Bar.
CHANNEL CONFIGURATION - Change the channel type from mono to stereo or vice versa with just one click
VERTICAL ZOOM - Zoom in and out vertically with the mouse wheel and decide whether you want to zoom to transport or selection.
KEY COMMANDS - The new Key Command dialog makes managing your short cuts quick and easy. Find commands easier with the dynamic filter and try new macros on the fly.The new Key Command dialog makes managing your short cuts quick and easy. Find commands easier with the dynamic filter and try new macros on the fly.
IMPORT TRACKS FROM PROJECTS - There are several new options that give you more flexibility and control when importing tracks, events, and time ranges.
MIDI PLUG-INS - MIDI plug-ins have had a design overhaul with a fresh new look
MIDI 2.0 - With support for high resolution velocity, CC, aftertouch, pitch bend, and poly pressure data, Cubase 13 is ready for the widespread adoption of MIDI 2.0.
ROUTING - You can now set instrument tracks/racks/sampler return channels as inputs for audio tracks, as well as FX and group channels.
DEMO PROJECTS - Explore three new excellent showcase demo projects, including productions by Austin Hull and Azodi.
WINDOW MANAGEMENT - Cubase now features Windows-compliant multi-window handling.
VIDEO ENGINE - The Windows video engine has been improved, including GPU hardware decoding for H264 and better overall performance

FEATURE Cubase Pro 13 Cubase Artist 13 Cubase Artist 13
Number of audio/MIDI/Instrument tracks Unlimited Unlimited 48/64/24
Physical inputs and outputs 256 32 24
Group channels 256 32 16
FX inserts/send/return channels 16 / 8 / 64 16/ 8 / 64 8 / 8 / 8
Number of included Audio effect plug-ins 87 65 45
Included VST instruments Groove Agent SE, HALion Sonic, Sampler Track, Iconica Sketch, Flux, Retrologue, Padshop, Verve, Trip Groove Agent SE, HALion Sonic, Sampler Track, Iconica Sketch, Flux, Retrologue, Padshop, Verve, Trip Groove Agent SE, HALion Sonic, Sampler Track, Iconica Sketch, Flux
Number of included instrument sounds > 3,000 >2,600 >1,000
Sample and Loop Packs 18 (> 20Gb) 18 (> 20Gb) 18 (> 20Gb)
External instruments / effects Yes (Yamaha Motif only) (Yamaha Motif only)
Scoring and notation Full Basic Basic
Chord track & Chord Pads Yes Yes Yes
Advanced comping Yes Yes -
Phase-coherent multi-track AudioWarp Yes Yes -
VariAudio pitch correction Yes Yes -
TrackVersions Yes Yes -
Advanced Audio Export Yes - -
Audio Alignment Yes - -
Control Room monitoring environment Yes - -
Dolby Atmos for music Yes - -

Right, if you hook up an external controller and want its knobs to adjust a high res parameter then you get low resolution. Now MIDI 1.0 does have a few ways to get high resolution data but I doubt Roland's implementation utilizes these. I'm not as well versed with Roland Fantom internals.

The values internally are stored as 10 bit so you always get high res control using knobs on the keyboard itself. For external control I'm sure these transmit 7 bit.

As I said, there's already a real product on the market with 1024 steps of resolution for a variety of parameters that does not utilize MIDI 2.0.

I wish for MIDI 2.0 because it will save lots of DAW heartache. But there's nothing definitive proving MIDI 2.0 is implemented.

Cubase having MIDI 2.0 isn't proof either, but it's a strong argument to have MIDI 2.0 in next gen Yamaha gear so competitors aren't selling more keyboards to take advantage of new Cubase features that a Yamaha flagship cannot. That's poor optics.

No one asks what IRQ and port to set their mouse to. USB plug and play solved that. MIDI 2.0 can do a lot of the tedious DAW setup for you assuming the device connected is well mapped with the new tables.

A single Montage M6 has (edit: not very) recently shipped from Japan to Indonesia.

Edit: Correction, date of shipment is shown as May 31, 2021.

[quotePost id=123240]A single Montage M6 has recently shipped from Japan to Indonesia.[/quotePost]

I need coordinates, please.

Look, this is urgent, I must find whether the new Montage has multi-level Undo that works system wide!

[quotePost id=123241]
I need coordinates, please.
Look, this is urgent, I must find whether the new Montage has multi-level Undo that works system wide![/quotePost]
I added an idea in Ideascale for that, but I'll never see it happen on the Montage and won't be able to trade-up to the Montage M, so I'll have to continue saving more often when programming sounds with each set of changes I make...

Commenting on something else from "the other forum" .,.

I've seen some complaints about the position of the ribbon controller on the Montage M with mention of some other keyboard or controller having a big issue with folks inadvertently touching the ribbon while playing.

I can also say I've maybe once heard of a user here encountering this kind of problem -- but it hardly seems like a common/systemic issue. I myself have not had any problems with the multiple Yamaha keyboards that share the same placement of the ribbon (below the pitch/mod wheels).

This is hardly a new thing. The EX5 in 1998 the CS6X in 1999, every Motif that followed (except for Motif classic which strangely dropped the ribbon -- the MO line which was a de-featured Motif didn't exist in this first generation so maybe this played a part) which are Motif ES, Motif XS, Motif XF.

So if this is a huge problem, there is a steady flow of synths from the 90's to now that have already passed rigorous market research.

I see this largely as a non issue. I often forget about the ribbon controller and have to really work to force myself to use it. If it was constantly being touched when using pitch/mod (which I do use constantly) then I'd hardly be able to forget about the ribbon.

I do believe that the CS80, a Laurence Welk organ I have, and Kurzweil's big long ribbon (among others) offers a better presentation of this gesture. When integrated with the keyboard (like on the CS80 or my organ) the strip is above the keys. A longer strip gives you finer control and I believe some implementations give you multiple strip zones so you can also have a more responsive shorter strip segment and not lose that feature of the relatively tiny ribbon controller.

Although "better" for ribbon, there's a tradeoff and I'm more than alright with the 25+ year tradition Montage M shares.