[quotePost id=118031]As a MOXF owner I just want to point out that what Yamaha is apparently doing with MODX+ seems exactly similar to what happend in 2013/ 2014 when MOXF repaced the MOX:
- including the second tone generator, I think it was SWP51
-in essence bringing the MOTIF XF feature set to the middle class MOXF, remaining differences where just higher quality DACs in Motif (and the sampling)

So probably MODX+ will do just that: using the second SWP70 to bring the Montage Spec to the middle class (minus the higher quality DAC and the better audio interface).

Yamaha seems to have a habit to follow the same marketing strategies...
[/quotePost]

If that's true, then that adds some interesting information on past history that we can use for speculating :p

I'll believe it once it's officially announced or someone cracks open a MODX+ and takes pics of the board (it's just like cracking a beer 😀 ), but I would bet a small amount of money that there is a second SWP70 inside the MODX+ and Yamaha may not even mention or utilize it next week when they first announce the new synth. They may wait until a later firmware update, if they are planning to add a AN-X engine at some point (which I think they likely will)..!?
I think it only makes sense for Yamaha to add the 3rd engine to both synths just to compete with the Fantom and Fantom-0 alone, not to mention that so many Montage/MODX owners have requested this on forums & ideascale (numerous times), it is one of (if not THE) highest Up Voted/supported ideas on there, and Yamaha even asked people what they would prefer to see added in a survey around 3 years ago in which most people said a VA engine...

Maybe we'll get a clue on Sept 1..!? We'll see! 😉

[quotePost id=118032]not to mention that so many Montage/MODX owners have requested this on forums & ideascale (numerous times), it is one of (if not THE) highest Up Voted/supported ideas on there[/quotePost]
Which doesn't say anything good about these platforms.

[quotePost id=118031]As a MOXF owner I just want to point out that what Yamaha is apparently doing with MODX+ seems exactly similar to what happend in 2013/ 2014 when MOXF repaced the MOX[/quotePost]
But also different in key ways.

The MOXF didn't replace the MOX until after the Motif XF replaces the Motif XS (just as earlier generations of lower cost "derivative" models did not get updated/replaced until the flagship board it was based on did). In this case, we're not seeing a new Montage before seeing the updated to the MODX.

Also, MOX to MOXF to MODX were entirely new names, as opposed to the old name with a plus after it.

To me, these are indications that the MODX+ will not represent the kind of advance over its predecessor that those earlier models exhibited.

Which I suppose doesn't quite say anything either way about the likelihood of the additional SWP70, though. 😉

[quotePost id=118035]
The MOXF didn't replace the MOX until after the Motif XF replaces the Motif XS (just as earlier generations of lower cost "derivative" models did not get updated/replaced until the flagship board it was based on did). In this case, we're not seeing a new Montage before seeing the updated to the MODX.

Also, MOX to MOXF to MODX were entirely new names, as opposed to the old name with a plus after it.

To me, these are indications that the MODX+ will not represent the kind of advance over its predecessor that those earlier models exhibited.
[/quotePost]

To me MOX to MOXF is not much different from MODX to MODX+
Really the only difference is that the MOX had an F added to the name instead of a + symbol, but yeah Yamaha have veered from the naming conventions of the past & having the Montage not replaced is different than in the past as well; However I suspect the roadmap for the Montage / MODX is a significantly different one than previous roadmaps. It's looking like the Montage will be a much longer lasting flagship than past synths and from what I remember Saul saying ~3+ years back was that the roadmap that Yamaha showed him was indeed a much different one, whereby the Montage was designed with more hardware longevity.

I actually wonder if the original roadmap for the Montage / MODX included continuing with the Montage as is and replacing (or with the possibility of replacing) the MODX at some point with a new Hardware mid tier like we are seeing with the new MODX+ !? Having engineered a board in the MODX with 2 spots for SWP70's and only 1 being utilized, I wonder if Yamaha had plans of potentially adding the second Tone Generator in the event that at some point the decision was made to add a 3rd Engine (or enhancements that required the extra SWP70)!? The roadmap may have been made with options/decisions to be made at key points and depending on what customers & the competition do..?

Time will tell. We may not know on Sept 1, but at some point they may either announce it or someone will crack open a MODX+ & share pics of the board 😉

WE WILL GET ANSWERS :p

[quotePost id=118036][quotePost id=118035]
To me MOX to MOXF is not much different from MODX to MODX+ [/quotePost]
*If* the only difference from MODX to MODX+ turns out to be more user memory and more FM polyphony, then I'd say MOX to MOXF differences were greater, but exactly how much more substantial is a matter of opinion, yes. It added polyphony, and it also added an ability to actually have user memory (optionally). But it also had a substantially larger factory sample set, and effects on 8 parts instead of 3, and more real-time control over internal/external zones, so there was more in the way of actual sonic and operational differences, as opposed to merely "capacities" if you will. Or to look at it from a different able, so far, it looks like every sound you could get out of MODX+ you could also get out of a MODX; whereas you could not get all the MOXF sounds out a MOX. But yes, when you're talking about things that are largely a matter of degree, what counts as a more or less "substantial change" is a line different people will draw in different places.

[quotePost id=118038]What about the potential for upgrading the audio/usb interface of the MODX to match the Montage? I haven't seen any speculation about that. Is it possible that the necessary boards/connectivity were copied from the Montage but just not populated the same?[/quotePost]
According to the Owner's manual pictures showing up on the webz, the audio interface of the MODX+ is unchanged from the MODX.
I do agree it was one area that really did need an upgrade.

[quotePost id=118038]
Haven't seen the internal boards in either Montage or Modx but maybe they just used the same board in the MODX but just didn't use the second SWP70 hardware. That way they wouldn't have to design or spend money on a custom board for the MODX.

What about the potential for upgrading the audio/usb interface of the MODX to match the Montage? I haven't seen any speculation about that. Is it possible that the necessary boards/connectivity were copied from the Montage but just not populated the same?

Regardless of the specifics, whether major or minor, I plan to trade-in my MODX8 for the MODX8+ as soon as it is available since any further enhancements will likely be software upgrades only for the next few years.

[/quotePost]
Yeah, I don't know if the same boards were used in both. The design diagrams aren't exactly the same with regard to various components, but it might be possible they used the same board to save money somehow.

I doubt they would have upgraded the audio/usb interface of the MODX to match the Montage. They need to be able to maintain the same price point as the MODX and I would say that the higher quality audio/usb interface of the Montage is a more expensive part to manufacture and is not the same as the one on the MODX.

You might want to hold off on your MODX8 to MODX8+ trade-in just in case you find out that there is no 2nd SWP70 Tone Generator on the MODX+ and all they did was increase the User memory and polyphony via the OS software. And then they might even give the MODX the same User memory and polyphony increase as the MODX+ in the next OS Update, including the same future OS update features/enhancements for the next couple of years.

This is why I suspect that they did in fact add a 2nd SWP70 Tone Generator on the MODX+. Otherwise, what was the sense if both the MODX & MODX+ end up with all the same specs, and the only difference might be the Mod Wheels..!? I think there is something bigger at play, and knowing that the Roadmap is at least 2 years tells me that they have plans for the MODX+.

[quotePost id=118039]*If* the only difference from MODX to MODX+ turns out to be more user memory and more FM polyphony, then I'd say MOX to MOXF differences were greater, but exactly how much more substantial is a matter of opinion, yes.[/quotePost]
Actually what I meant was not necessarily the actual physical differences or differences in specs/functionality, but rather just the amount of difference in the name change (adding an 'F' vs adding a '+' to the previous name)
MOX --> MOXF
MODX --> MODX+

However it will be interesting to find out what actual physical differences & differences in specs/functionality there end up being between the MODX & MODX+. Maybe that 2nd SWP70 is in the MODX+, which would be a game changer difference. But it's not there and most of the difference is in the name and cosmetic in the end!?

[quotePost id=118047][quotePost id=118039]*If* the only difference from MODX to MODX+ turns out to be more user memory and more FM polyphony, then I'd say MOX to MOXF differences were greater, but exactly how much more substantial is a matter of opinion, yes.[/quotePost]
Actually what I meant was not necessarily the actual physical differences or differences in specs/functionality, but rather just the amount of difference in the name change (adding an 'F' vs adding a '+' to the previous name)
MOX --> MOXF
MODX --> MODX+
[/quotePost]
Ah, I see. Yes, its just one character. But to me, certain things connotate substantially new model, whereas others indicate basically existing model with minor enhancements.

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet. FYI - MODX+ currently has content to download. The "Bozy" piano. It's in X8L format (MODX original file format). I'm not sure if that means MODX+ will use X8? files or if this is provided so MODX can also have a native format of this library.

The samples used for the library are the same size as the Montage version. Nothing new there. However, there are new Performances vs my Montage version:

1 Bozy FM Brass
2 Bozy FM Pad
3 Bozy Vibes 1
4 Imperial Guitars
5 Piano in 5ths
6 Octave Shadow
7 Ghosts in Piano
8 Bozy + FM Piano

And for those who care about the bits - or at least the header:

00000000  59 41 4d 41 48 41 2d 59  53 46 43 00 00 00 00 00  |YAMAHA-YSFC.....|

	00000010  35 2e 30 2e 31 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |5.0.1...........|

Header for version was given to demonstrate it's not a new format exclusive or updated for MODX+. It's really just a plain Jane original MODX file. Therefore nothing interesting to glean given the original Bozy for MODX was the Montage library.

MODX can't not compete with Fantom0 anymore in most of the features. Controls, engines, sequencing, connections, expansions, etc. This being said, sound is still amazing 🙂

Kind of a tangent but I noticed the Yamaha official product registration pages show not only the MODX6+ (7+ and 8+ ) but also shows the CK61 and CK88. Whatever that is may be coming in a similar timeframe.

[quotePost id=118076]Kind of a tangent but I noticed the Yamaha official product registration pages show not only the MODX6+ (7+ and 8+ ) but also shows the CK61 and CK88. Whatever that is may be coming in a similar timeframe.[/quotePost]
Now you've done it!
The internetz can't take so much speculation at once!

A retailer currently has the following listed for the MODX8+

Compact synthesizer designed to give you control of your sound.
The Yamaha MODX8+ features a graded-hammer action keybed, for an authentic acoustic piano touch, making it an excellent choice for piano players. The MODX8+ is the largest keyboard of its family, but still has the portable characteristics that make it a MODX+ synthesizer. MODX8+ has 88 weighted-action keys that make it a delight to play. Like the rest of the MODX+ series, MODX8+ gets its power from the same technology found in the flagship MONTAGE keyboard, combining Yamaha’s AMW2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2) technology, and the advanced synthesis capability of FM-X (Frequency Modulation). MODX8+ provides 128 notes of AWM2 polyphony as well as 128 notes of FM-X polyphony—double the original MODX8. Together, these two iconic sound engines provide an impressive palette for playback and complex sound design. If you're looking for a cutting-edge technology in a full 7-octave synth, the Yamaha MODX8+ is an outstanding choice. Combine Samples and Synths The MODX8+ sound is derived from the same technology powering the flagship MONTAGE—Yamaha’s AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2) sample-based engine and the FM-X (Frequency Modulation) synth architecture. This unique mixture results in stunning emulative acoustic instruments, synthesized sounds, drums and more. AWM2 technology allows for a large amount of data compression without sacrificing sound quality, resulting in unparalleled, realistic sound reproduction. On the other hand, the FM-X engine is a highly sophisticated form of synthesis capable of producing awe-inspiring sounds with remarkable dynamic range and unprecedented power and fidelity. Together, AWM2 and FM-X give you the ability to create an impressive array of sounds that have never been heard before. Add Movement to Your Sound The real performance power of the MODX8+ series comes from its Motion Control technology, putting rhythmic and dynamic control at your fingertips for a unique, personalized sound. The Super Knob allows simultaneous control of up to 128 parameters in a single Performance. This means you can control nearly anything from mix functions like volume, pan and effect sends to detailed synth parameters like filters, LFOs and operators. Motion Sequences are tempo-synchronized, completely customizable control sequences that can be assigned to virtually any synthesizer parameter and provide incredible new ways of creating sound. Ready for the Road Taking a page from the MONTAGE series, MODX8+ keyboards have an extraordinary amount of power and features, but the difference is in its form. MODX8+ has a modern design that’s considerably lighter, making transport easier and load-in a breeze. If you’re looking for a lightweight keyboard that can travel easy, but you’re not willing to sacrifice sound and performance features, then MODX8+ is the right keyboard for you. Let MODX8+ empower your creativity and inspire your music.

FEATURES
88-note weighted-action keybed, for a familiar feel to pianists
Motion Control Synthesis unifies and controls AWM2 and FM-X sound engines
256 notes total polyphony (128 AWM2 + 128 FM-X)
1.75GB internal Flash memory
Super Knob controls multiple parameters simultaneously
Send 10 and receive four audio channels, plus 16 channels of MIDI, via a single USB cable
Live Sets allow Performance organization without copying, changing order or renaming
Four-part seamless sound switching—change Performances while holding notes without sound or effect cutoff
Motion Sequences drive synthesizer parameters through rhythmic control data you can interact with in real time
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION
Yamaha MODX8+ 88-Key Synthesizer

Keys: 88
Keybed: Weighted action
Polyphony: 256 notes (128 AWM2 + 128 FM-X)
Internal Flash memory: 1.75GB
Included case: Soft
Weight: 30.4 lb.