I see some chatter around my reporting of the CK61/88 listings. Since others had difficulty locating what I was referencing, I'll leave more context.

And the MODX+ models (including showing no "new" Montage models at least in this list):

Here are the marketing images:

... there are also images for MODX7+ and MODX8+. Those would be somewhat redundant.

Not posting links is intentional. My choice to do this was to help, in a small way, to keep the links alive for others to verify the original source before the those entities plugged the hole in the messaging.

Wow, that's a lot of work that Yamaha put into a new MODX hardware upgrade with all the marketing images, new SKU's, new manuals, etc. etc.

This is still pure speculation at this point, but if the CK61 & CK88 turn out to be the new AN-X synths, and nothing significantly has really changed on the MODX+, nor with updates to the Montage, then Yamaha have not listened to their customers' feedback and have passed up a major opportunity to gain new customers. If they don't see what Roland have done with the Fantom and Fantom-0, nor the potential that Roland have going forward to make more huge enhancements on those Workstations, and Yamaha's 2 year roadmap is to keep the Montage as is and the new MODX+ as what we already know it to be, with minor enhancements via OS updates, then Yamaha are tone deaf to their customers and will surely lose out on major sales opportunities.

It doesn't affect me any, but it just seems to be a shame if we watch it unfold into almost nothing new, after all the fun speculation over the past several weeks! 😉

[quotePost id=118099]
For me it will be an easy decision to upgrade to the MODX+ if, and only if, it has that 3rd engine.
[/quotePost]

chip/part shortage for the current MODX &/or replacement parts incompatibility could be potential reasons for a nothing burger.

Your last statement is key. If Yamaha have not been listening to their customers and don't provide the AN-X engine, then I think they will experience a whole lot of nothing burger with regard to new sales... you are just one of scores of MODX owners that would likely upgrade to the MODX+ only if there is a 3rd engine, or maybe in other people's cases, if there is significant changes compared to their current MODX (which would not even be a thing if they increase the User memory and FM-X polyphony on the MODX in a future OS update)!

It will be interesting to see what kind of burger Yamaha have chosen to offer new and existing customers, knowing exactly what customers have have already told them they want on numerous occasions via numerous platforms...

The original MODX was fantastic value, having almost all the capabilities of the flagship at less than half the price and, very important, full compatibility with the flagship. It's an ecosystem when one can freely exchange the two boards according to need.

The new one ups that, and is basically a Montage in a cheaper package, at less than half the price. What's not to like?

The whole "it needs a new engine to be competitive" feels to me as a projection of existing owners, who are obviously hungry for something new and bored with what they already have. But I don't think it has much relevance for the positioning in the market.

As I said before, IMO some bigger change in overall functionality, like sampling or step sequencing etc would do much more to make it look more appealing in a comparison list.

Let's keep our fingers crossed it doesn't turn out like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0

lol, that's a classic!

The new one ups that, and is basically a Montage in a cheaper package, at less than half the price. What's not to like?

Yeah the specs on the MODX+ are definitely closer to the Montage, which is a good thing IMO. The difference gap is going to be much more narrow between the two.

There is still so much we don't know yet, including are they going to release an OS update for the Montage & MODX any time soon? In Sept 2019 they announced/released/demoed Montage 3.0/MODX 2.0, Montage White, and some reface stuff. It will be interesting to see if they will announce Montage 4.0/MODX 3.0, along with the MODX+ announcement/discussions/demoes. Also will there be other new products announced as well, or will this just be a MODX+ only announcement!?

If they do announce the MODX update 3.0 and this update ups the memory to 1.75GB & adds the extra FM-X polyphony, would you still trade up at this point for the newer model?

If they release update 3.0, but it doesn't change the memory or polyphony on the MODX, then I can definitely see a certain number of people trading up for the newer model.

As I said before, IMO some bigger change in overall functionality, like sampling or step sequencing etc would do much more to make it look more appealing in a comparison list.

There are definitely some key changes that could be made that I would prefer over a new engine. Sampling or step sequencing would be great for others, but I would never use them, and I respectfully disagree that either of those would be seen by most people as more appealing than a VA engine.
IMO I think that most people looking to purchase a new synth or trade up their MODX would be more enticed by a VA engine than anything else at this point. Maybe I'm wrong..!? I'm just basing that on what I've noticed people asking for on forums and Ideascale ideas/up votes. I have seen many people ask for a step sequencer in the past, but since they added the pattern sequencer in 2019, I don't see it being asked for as much anymore. The majority of ideas and the highest up voted ones are for a VA engine. And it could partly be as you said "a projection of existing owners, who are obviously hungry for something new and bored with what they already have" ... although it's funny how some people could be bored with what they have when not many have yet come close to fully utilizing the full potential of their Montage/MODX, and both these synths are already Beasts! But for new potential buyers, perception plays a big part in them deciding one product over another, and right now Roland 'appear' to have a lot of flash and extra things to brag about IMO. However on the other hand, Yamaha's synths have an FM-X engine to sell, which Roland's do not.

One of the recurring discussions on forums over the past year or so is regarding some who argue that the Fantom/Fantom-0 has a greater ability for more sounds (layers/splits), since it basically has the equivalent of 16 useable PARTs as opposed to the Montage/MODX's 8 PARTs under KBD CTRL. This is why I think adding the ability to turn PART Elements On/Off within Scenes would be huge as it would completely change the argument regarding the number of sounds under KBD CTRL... But even more so, for my own purposes, there have been several times I've worked on a Performance and could easily have used a 9th PART under KBD CTRL, and yet several of the AWM2 PARTs only had 3 or 4 Elements 'On', which seems like a waste ... I really could have utilized those unused Elements & turned off the Elements that were On with a few PARTs, then switch back (which essentially makes two completely different sounds out of a single PART, to switch back and forth on through Scenes). As an example, someone could use PART 8, and change it to use 8 completely different combinations of Elements to switch between in 8 different Scenes. That's essentially creating 8 different sounds using 1 PART...
For me this would be a game changer, but for most other people it likely would not be. But it would change up the argument regarding the number of usable PARTs between the Roland and Yamaha synths...

[quotePost id=118098]Wow, that's a lot of work that Yamaha put into a new MODX hardware upgrade with all the marketing images, new SKU's, new manuals, etc. etc. [/quotePost]
That much is pretty much necessary for anything as minimal as a name change, e.g. you're not going to keep using marketing images that display the wrong name on the product. (Though I noticed they have not updated the case!)

[quotePost id=118099]For me it will be an easy decision to upgrade to the MODX+ if, and only if, it has that 3rd engine.
[/quotePost][quotePost id=118100]you are just one of scores of MODX owners that would likely upgrade to the MODX+ only if there is a 3rd engine[/quotePost]
For everyone whose desire to upgrade depends entirely on a VA synth engine, probably for about the same money that it would cost you to sell your MODX and buy a MODX+, you could add a Roland JX-08 or Waldorf Blofeld Desktop, which fit nicely at least on the MODX7 or MODX8. Or an iPad Mini can give you some great VA, and only requires a single USB connection to the MODX for all MIDI and audio integration. There's also the Nostalgia add-on pack from Easy Sounds, which gets you something a lot closer to VA out of the existing MODX capabilities. Just thought I'd balance all the hand-wringing with some actual solutions. 😉

In fact, something that could be interesting to see from Yamaha would be an AN1X module that you could sit on a MODX and integrate with it, providing its own set of dedicated knobs, with a MODX OS update that would be pre-configured to access/integrate its sounds. (Though one nice feature of the MODX is that it is probably already the best board you can get in terms of easily integrating internal and external sounds... you can easily make single-part Performances that can call up external sounds, which you can then mix-and-match with other internal and external sounds as easily as if they were all stock internal sounds.)

For some people, VA is the killer feature. To me, the closest thing to a decision-altering feature would probably have been aftertouch. At least you can add VA to existing models, as I described. Not so with AT.

[quotePost id=118099]you are just one of scores of MODX owners that would likely upgrade to the MODX+ only if there is a 3rd engine, or maybe in other people's cases, if there is significant changes compared to their current MODX[/quotePost]

True. Sometimes it's just one feature that makes the difference, but it is not uncommon for replacement models with minor name changes to have only minor differences; and it's not unexpected that while those differences can help generate additional interest and help keep the board more competitive, the primary market is probably not owners of the previous iterations, who likely won't find the changes sufficiently compelling compared to what they have unless they happen to address a person's particular needs.

Nord Stage and Stage 2 became Stage EX and 2EX, same board with more memory. A welcome change, but not something that would prompt many non-EX owners to upgrade to an EX. That doesn't make it a failure. Kawai MP7 and MP11 to MP7SE and MP11SE. Casio PX-S1000 to PX-S1100. Dexibell S3 and S7 to S3 Pro and S7 Pro. Roland FP-30/60/90 to FP-30X/60X/90X. Korg Krome to Krome EX. Vox Continental 73 to 73BK. These all had notable, valuable improvements, but they were still updated versions of older models, not "totally new" models, and probably didn't sell largely to owners of the earlier ones. Point is, relatively minor updates that don't prompt tons of users to upgrade are not "failures" unless you assume the target market is largely existing customers of the pre-upgraded model, and that's not always the case. There are other reasons to refresh a model.

[quotePost id=118099]or maybe in other people's cases, if there is significant changes compared to their current MODX (which would not even be a thing if they increase the User memory and FM-X polyphony on the MODX in a future OS update)![/quotePost]
That's what happened when Roland updated the VR-09 to the VR-09B. All the enhancements of the upgraded model were available in a firmware upgrade for the earlier model. Perhaps the best example of an updated board being designed for reasons other than selling to owners of the earlier version. When something doesn't appeal to you, that doesn't have to mean it was a bad decision, it could just mean that you weren't the target market.

Yes, Fantom-0 is serious competition. But as I mentioned earlier, MODX and Fantom-0 both have some significant advantages over the other. It will be interesting to see how the MODX+ is selling 6 months from now. It doesn't have to beat the Fantom-0 to be a success... though I'm sure Yamaha would like to see that. 🙂

Regarding opening up a MODX+ to see what's inside:

It'd likely be preferable to pay the $17 for a service manual once available to get the parts list rather than tearing into a new device. Paul @ SSS will likely do this for you with a writeup.

[quotePost id=118105]I'm just basing that on what I've noticed people asking for on forums and Ideascale ideas/up votes. I have seen many people ask for a step sequencer in the past, but since they added the pattern sequencer in 2019, I don't see it being asked for as much anymore.[/quotePost]
Yeah, but those are (mostly) existing owners.
Those who wanted sampling probably never became owners so they're not on IdeaScale asking for stuff.

[quotePost id=118105]although it's funny how some people could be bored with what they have when not many have yet come close to fully utilizing the full potential of their Montage/MODX, and both these synths are already Beasts![/quotePost]
Yeah, well, people in the sofware world collect tens or hundreds of VSTis while mastering none. It's a hard life 🙂

[quotePost id=118105]But for new potential buyers, perception plays a big part in them deciding one product over another, and right now Roland 'appear' to have a lot of flash and extra things to brag about IMO.[/quotePost]
Well, here's where we kinda disagree, at least about the "distance" from which that perception takes place.
I see it something like this:
Multiple synth engines? Yes, both have those; Sequencing? Yeah, but with differences; Audio interfaces? yes; Sampling? Well, only one of those has it.

Now, it totally comes to the actual customer.
It's interesting how a lot of promo material from Yamaha shows the MODX in a live context, being played, and how a lot of promo material from Roland shows the Fantom-0 in the studio in front of a computer.

For a player, that synth engines entry above might certainly be worth zooming in, because it determines what you can do live with that one board; also those guys probably don't care at all about sampling.
For a "producer" (hip hop, EDM and so on), sampling might be very important while whatever piano or organ engine, might not.
I see the Fantom-0 being quite popular with producer types on some forums. Roland was always a big name in EDM and hip-hop, but in its glory time the Motif was very popular with producers as well.

[quotePost id=118106]
In fact, something that could be interesting to see from Yamaha would be an AN1X module that you could sit on a MODX and integrate with it, providing its own set of dedicated knobs, with a MODX OS update that would be pre-configured to access/integrate its sounds. [/quotePost]
Interestingly enough, I actually had such a suggestion on IdeaScale a while ago.
To have the functionality of the first generation of Motif with their expansion boards, but now as external modules connected via Thunderbolt (in a future model), but I guess USB might be enough.
So separate modules for VA, VL, sampling and even a powerful sequencer.

It was put in Reserve, so I guess the answer is No 🙁

[quotePost id=118106]
Though I noticed they have not updated the case![/quotePost]

Yeah, I guess it doesn't make as much sense to change the case as both the MODX and MODX+ could fall under the MODX family/umbrella!?

Do the Motif bags just say 'Motif' or do they have different bags for the different models?

For some people, VA is the killer feature. To me, the closest thing to a decision-altering feature would probably have been aftertouch. At least you can add VA to existing models, as I described. Not so with AT.

Yeah I can't see Yamaha adding that feature to the MODX+. They have to give their Flagship some things extra than the mid tier model, or else who is going to ever buy a Montage... and they have already closed the gap between the MODX+ and Montage regarding some important specs like User memory and FM-X polyphony 😉

[quotePost id=118107]Regarding opening up a MODX+ to see what's inside:
It'd likely be preferable to pay the $17 for a service manual once available to get the parts list rather than tearing into a new device. Paul @ SSS will likely do this for you with a writeup.[/quotePost]

Yeah, that makes sense to just wait for Paul writeup! How long do you think before we see a write-up on the MODX+ from Paul?

[quotePost id=118108]Those who wanted sampling probably never became owners so they're not on IdeaScale asking for stuff.[/quotePost]
That's one thing I wish they'd change. Open IdeaScale as 'Read-Only' to Everyone. If someone wants to add ideas, then they can create an account, but I think it would be good if new prospective owners who is currently just shopping, could view ideas on IdeaScale without having to sign in. Even if they aren't an owner they can create and account and add ideas I believe!? I think I added one while I was shopping around over 3 years ago...

It's interesting how a lot of promo material from Yamaha shows the MODX in a live context, being played, and how a lot of promo material from Roland shows the Fantom-0 in the studio in front of a computer.

Yeah, I think that's because Yamaha from the beginning have categorized the Montage/MODX as 'Synths' instead of 'Workstations', and have promoted using them Live.

For a player, that synth engines entry above might certainly be worth zooming in, because it determines what you can do live with that one board; also those guys probably don't care at all about sampling.
For a "producer" (hip hop, EDM and so on), sampling might be very important while whatever piano or organ engine, might not.
I see the Fantom-0 being quite popular with producer types on some forums. Roland was always a big name in EDM and hip-hop, but in its glory time the Motif was very popular with producers as well.

There definitely seems to be a bit of a marketing difference between the two sets of keyboards.
Even though Yamaha have designed both the Montage and MODX(+) for both Live and Studio (easily integrates with DAWs), they they shifted from the Motif days. They have a slight emphasis on Live, and Yamaha still deem them as Synths instead of Workstations, despite adding a Sequencer to them in 2019 (but neither do sampling, so the Synth category still makes sense). I think in general the MODX(+) are more suited for live gigging players over the Montage, because of the weight and price, where as the Montage is more suited for studio use, even though both of them can easily do live & studio quite awesomely.
I'm not sure but do the Roland's even have something like "Live Set"?

Personally I use the Montage more from a producer perspective; however I have also worked on Live Sets and have played live gigs with it as well.
But the Roland's definitely seem to be a bit more Producer orientated (or at least marketed that way) than the Montage, and even that much more than the MODX(+).

I actually had such a suggestion on IdeaScale a while ago.
It was put in Reserve, so I guess the answer is No

Yep, as soon as it's in Reserve, it's DOA! I had one go into Reserve 1 day after adding the idea. We won't be seeing Yamaha provide WCX compression to User memory or 3rd party libraries on the Montage/MODX(+)