I don't have my keyboard out to test same sound SSS - but, in general, Montage's SSS is defeated if your Performance has any Parts 9-16 occupied. The interface will tell you if the Performance is "SSS" ready with an emblem shown - I believe a blue box around "SSS". It's small. You see these in the [CATEGORY SEARCH] next to every Performance name or [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) screen in the upper right. Other emblems are "AWM2", "FM-X", etc. Also, in general, you only can switch once while holding down notes. A second switch will cut off the original held notes. None of this may apply to your situation - but wanted to lay down some foundation.

What I can say is that I handle the situation you are presented with in a different way. If I had knob positions that are important and want to switch back to these positions - I would place these knobs under superknob control (even if I never use superknob to move them). The reason is that knobs (unfortunately) cannot be saved to scenes. However, superknob can be saved to a scene. I can setup superknob position=0 as forcing the default assignable knob positions I want at every level. Then I would have a SCENE button [1]-[8] that I could press and set the superknob to 0. This would "reset" my knob positions.

I use scenes over SSS every time.

Someone else may be able to dig more into using SSS for your situation. It may work - I'd have to plug in the keyboard to see.

I think you can simply recall the original performance...
Or is it that you are saving each one after performing...?

So, I would like to know how to easily get back to an original sound after live editing (with knobs and/or sliders). For example, suppose one perfomance opens with knob 1 value to 110. During the play, I turn it back to 20 and so on. But on the same time I'm going on playing and I want to get this value back to the original value, but I don't remember it's 110.

And this is an example for one control only. But I could have modified all the controlers too, and want them to restaure their original values.

”Knob 1” could be assigned to more than a half dozen different things. For example, “Knob 1” might be assigned to a “Quick Edit” parameter, “Cutoff”, “Low EQ Gain”, or “Swing” offset, but it might also be assigned to a MULTI function, “Pan”, “Var Send” or “Rev Send”. Knob 1 could also be controlling “Part 1 Assign” which would be Assign Knob 1 of 8 for the program in Part 1, or finally, it could be controlling “Common Assign” which would mean it is one of 8 possible Super Knob linkable Assign Knobs.

If the latter, then Jason’s suggestion will work for the Assignable Knob parameters. As the 8 Common Assign Knobs’ positions can be linked to the stored Super Knob position... so returning the Super Knob to the stored condition (via a Scene) will return all parameters associated with this control matrix to their original values. ...But,

Your request is not just about the Knob 1 or Assignable Knobs but all the controllers you might have modified... which will bring us to a discussion of Controller behavior when a program is recalled/changed.

When you recall any Performance program, by default, and specifically when the “Controller Reset” parameter is set to “Reset”, each Controller will return the assigned parameter to a nominal value.

For example, Pitch Bend will return +0 (even though this is ensured by the MONTAGE having a spring-loaded PB Wheel).
Pitch Bend = +0 (center)
Channel Aftertouch = 0 (minimum)
Modulation = 0 (minimum)
Expression = 127 (maximum)
Breath Control = 127 (maximum)
Foot Controller 1 = 127 (maximum)
Foot Controller 2 = 127 (maximum)
Foot Switch = 0 (off)
Ribbon = +0 (center)
Assignable Function 1 = 0 (off)
Assignable Function 2 = 0 (off)
Motion Sequence Hold = 0 (off)
Sustain switch = 0 (off)
Sostenuto switch = 0 (off)
Motion Seq Lane 1 = 0 (minimum when Polarity is set to Unipolar and center when Polarity is set to Bipolar)
Motion Seq Lane 2 = 0 (minimum when Polarity is set to Unipolar and center when Polarity is set to Bipolar)
Motion Seq Lane 3 = 0 (minimum when Polarity is set to Unipolar and center when Polarity is set to Bipolar)
Motion Seq Lane 4 = 0 (minimum when Polarity is set to Unipolar and center when Polarity is set to Bipolar)
RPN = no change

A “Reset All Controller” command is sent whenever you change Performances on the MONTAGE and if Controller Reset is set to Reset, the value being controlled will return to these settings.

Therefore, if you moved the MW during your playing of the current Performance, and you move to a new Performance, the position of the MW which is usually represented by a parameter value 0 through 127 based on how far from all the way down... will be reset to 0. And even though the MW does not physically return to minimum, the assigned parameter value will reset to minimum.

Parameters not Reset include:
Program Change, Bank Select MSB/LSB, Volume, Pan, Harmonic Content, Sustain Level, Release Time, Attack Time, Decay Time, Brightness, Effect 1 Depth, Effects 4 Depth, Portamento Switch, Pitch Bend Sensitivity, Fine Tuning, Coarse Tuning, Assignable Knob 1-8

Best Solution:
If you wish to return to the start condition without interruption of the sound, you can (provided the current Performance qualifies as an SSS candidate) by simply storing the Performances in two locations and simply recall the second one when you are ready to return to start condition.
Other options exist but we’d need to know a bit more about the specific Performance... just FYI.

Additional info:
Do not sweat “burning” an entire Performance location.
There are 640 User Bank Performance locations and 5120 Library Bank locations for User Performances
That’s 5,760 total Performances.
Go ahead “burn it up!!!”

So, yes, almost "I think you can simply recall the original performance...
Or is it that you are saving each one after performing...? "

Now, you can avoid walking the wild side of those not resetting nasty parameters already listed by BM by.... taking a couple of pictures of Montage before moving or touching anything ?

The implication is that you cannot SSS into the same Performance. So just make a copy and SSS into it.

Imagine your Performance is called "My Sound" - this is the Performance name of your sound in the Category Search listing. When you have "My Sound" loaded, press [STORE] and create a new Performance with a different name (do not overwrite the original). The different Performance can be called "My Sound 2". Then if you want to SSS switch back to the original settings - and currently have "My Sound" active, you can press on "My Sound 2". It should SSS switch as long as the Performances do not use any Parts 9-16.

Both would be duplicates - so either would return you back to the original settings. Apparently, you just can't press on the same Performance name you currently have loaded.

That's a way.

So that once the hard work on the scene is considered finished (I am going to put a D2D3 octave here, ending after a week of profound thinking), you store it as Happy Birthday, DO NOT TOUCH.
Then immediately make a copy saving it as Happy Birthday, PLAY.
Then you take a couple of pictures to acquaint the position of the sliders and rename those pictures as Happy Birthday INITIAL SETTINGS 1,2,3....

Done, no more sorrow, no more pain.

Circling back here now that I have my keyboard plugged into the studio here. You can do an SSS from the same Performance to itself in order to get all of the "knobs" set back to the Performance defaults.

I tested this out by recalling the factory preset "CFX Pop/Rock" - I have a live set for this sound. I changed the Common/Audio level Assignable Knob 3 - which is linked to Reverb Send. With this knob full clockwise - I get a more metallic and of course reverb-y piano. It's easy to tell, sonically, the difference. I held a chord - then pressed by live set for the same sound again - which I could see reset my knobs and yet the chord did not cut off.

So it is indeed possible to SSS switch to the same Performance as you are leaving. The only rules are as previously stated - you must be using only Parts 1-8 (and none from Parts 9-16) in order for SSS to work on Montage. On MODX - there are more restrictions for SSS due to limited simultaneous effects.

Thank you all !

Your request is not just about the Knob 1 or Assignable Knobs but all the controllers you might have modified... which will bring us to a discussion of Controller behavior when a program is recalled/changed.

Absolutely true, Bad Mister, that is exactly what I'm looking for.

This is very simple : on my Korg Kronos, there is a "Compare" button on the front panel. Whatever Program, or Combination, whatever edits I've done before, even the most complex, I can get back to the original settings, in the twinkle of an eye just by pressing this button. And I can hear alternatively betwen the both - original and edtited sounds - just by pressing it several tmes.
This spec is very convenient for sound design.

I knew that the Montage, unfortunately, doesn't have this button on the fron panel. But I hoped Yamaha would have provided this in a software command. Not more !
Well, I will do what you've suggested Bad Mister : I will save the Performance two times.

I hope Yamaha will take this into account and will improve it in a further software upgrade !

Thanks again for your answers friends.

on my Korg Kronos there is a "Compare" button on the front panel

There's one of those on Montage too.

The [EDIT]/COMPARE button. The way it works is it shows you what was last recalled from memory (be it a preset, user, or library Performance). You've got to be inside an area where there are parameters - like Common/Audio for the Performance-wide settings or inside any one of the 16 Parts for Part-level settings.

For example:

1) Recall the preset Performance "CFX Shrine"
2) Press [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) to place you at the home screen if not there already - this also ensures selecting none of the Parts
3) Move the sliders in different positions from the Performance's programmed settings. Maybe set sliders 1-4 all the way down (0) and sliders 5-8 all the way up (127)
4) Press the [EDIT] button which will place you in the Common/Audio (Performance-wide) settings
5) Press the [EDIT] button again. Now the button "acts" as the label below the button "COMPARE" - looking at the sliders you will notice when the [EDIT]/COMPARE button is flashing - the sliders show the original positions. When not flashing - you see the sliders 1-4 all the way down and 5-8 all the way up as you have set them currently in your changes.

Note that values in any menu of "Edit: Common/Audio" will show the differences between when the button is flashing (showing the saved values) vs not flashing (showing the current edited values).

or, for Parts ...

1) From any Performance you've made Part-level edits ...
2) Press [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) to place you at the home screen if not there already - this also ensures selecting none of the Parts
3) Touch any Part and select "Edit" from the touch screen
4) Press the [EDIT] button. The button "acts" as the label below the button "COMPARE" - same general function as for the Common/Audio level.

This method does have blind spots. Notably - the assignable knobs cannot be seen by value using COMPARE. There is a screen which shows the Common/Audio level Assignable Knob values - but this screen does not participate in the COMPARE button. If you wanted to see the common level assignable knobs and their differences - you may get lucky where the original Performance is saved with the common-level "[ASSIGN]" button turned on for the knobs 1-8. "CFX Shrine" is not one of those - so even if you have the button turned ON for your edit buffer (your changed Performance from the preset) - then pressing [EDIT]/COMPARE will restore the preset's setting for the [ASSIGN] button (as off) and therefore will not show assignable knob positions but rather fixed-function of the [TONE] controls. There are other blind spots as well. COMPARE cannot be used for Scene settings - the Scene menu cannot participate in COMPARE.

For assignable knobs - even if you're "lucky" and the [ASSIGN] button, for example, is ON for the Common/Audio level assignable knobs - so you can "see" the knob differences - you cannot compare the differences by numerical value. These screens where the knobs' values are shown do not participate in COMPARE.

I do think these (and other) blind spots limit the utility of the COMPARE feature.

Instead - you've got to write down some of those values on scratch paper if you want a way to quickly "compare".

BTW:

If trying to use "SSS" as a way to compare a Performance with itself by pressing the same Performance either in [CATEGORY SEARCH] or a Live Set - you can only jump one time. Hold a chord and touch the same Performance - the original chord still sounds without change (... well, assuming you don't have motion sequence or arpeggios running). Touch the same Performance again and the sound cuts out because you can only have held notes survive a single switch. Not two.

Additional info:
Do not sweat “burning” an entire Performance location.
There are 640 User Bank Performance locations and 5120 Library Bank locations for User Performances
That’s 5,760 total Performances.
Go ahead “burn it up!!!”

How does one save a performance into one of these 5120 Library Bank locations?

 

How does one save a performance into one of these 5120 Library Bank locations?

Assuming you are not using all 8 library slots, you save your user bank into the next free library slot. You would do this in two steps after ensuring you have a USB stick (with room) inserted into your keyboard.

1) [UTILITY] "Contents" -> "Store/Save" and change "Content Type" to Library, then save to a new file and name the library something you recognize.
2) [UTILITY] "Contents" -> "Load" with "Content Type" as Library and load the file previously saved.

You will end up with all Performances, Live Set, Waveforms, etc. in your User area also now in a Library Slot matching the name you used in step 1. You can initialize your user area now since the content is all in a library slot.

If you only had 1 Performance in your user area - then you also, by using a Library slot, do not have access to the 639 other possible Performance locations available in that Library slot.

If you are concerned about this sort of "waste" - then make sure to fill up your user area more completely before creating the Library slot with a "Load" operation. Library Import can help combine two Libraries together into a single one. There are videos and tutorials for further exploration.

If you only had 1 Performance in your user area - then you also, by using a Library slot, do not have access to the 639 other possible Performance locations available in that Library slot.

If you are concerned about this sort of "waste" - then make sure to fill up your user area more completely before creating the Library slot with a "Load" operation.

THANK YOU!!!

I was worried there'd be caveats to this dreamy sounding space for sound designs. Fortunately I'm rapidly closing in on 640 performances, in current config, and have another almost full config in a backup.

Cheers

One caveat - if you can call it this - is that the Library area is similar to the factory presets in terms of WRITE access. Once you've committed a Performance to a Library - it's there "for good" unless you remove the entire library and cannot otherwise be altered (except full removal of it and everything else in the same library).

This would therefore influence a certain notion of "permanence" to anything you commit to a Library slot. The user area allows for any Performance stored within to be overwritten with an updated version of the same Performance. Or you can delete one-by-one only certain Performance(s) in the user area. Neither of these operations are available to Library Performances.

I am constantly my performances as I find better/different ways to approach the same song. Granted - there may be a collection of sounds I haven't touched in a while - so maybe these could be promoted to a Library. However, I still like the flexibility of being able to tweak any of my sounds.

I haven't gotten to that 640 mark yet. Partly because I can combine several songs worth into a single "shared" Performance. Also partly because of particulars of the ensembles I play in. That doesn't apply to you, however - so you may be in a position of requiring creating a Library for the purpose of freeing up space.

If I were in your position, I would first create a Library of my entire 640-ish full user area. Then load this library. Then clear my user area. Then I would import lets say 575 (or whatever the number ends up being - still a lot) of Performances that were "done" and could stand not being touched for a long time - if ever. Then create a library of those 575 Performances. Then initialize my user area again. Copy all EXCEPT the 575 "keepers" (so 65-ish). Delete the 1st library, load the 2nd "keepers" library. I end up with the "finished" 575ish in a library slot, the 65ish in my user area free to modify and adjust - and have all of my original content somewhere in the box still - between the two memory areas.

A second caveat is conditional. If your user area contains custom waveforms - you may need to also think about memory management to avoid having two copies of the waveforms (one in the Library and one in the user). This can still be managed - but it gets a little more complex in order to ensure an optimized outcome. 3rd party software can help here - but it can also be done without it.

The distinction between user performance areas and user libraries is something that continues to elude me. Every time I think I begin to understand what each is for, the pros and cons of each, what kinds of things should go where, and how and why to move something from one to the other... it turns out there's something else I don't know that makes me reconsider. There are useful tidbits scattered across numerous disucssions on this site (this last post was a good one), but I can't seem to keep it all straight in my head. Is there any good single thread or article that thoroughly covers all the angles, distinctions, and "best practices" for managing the two areas? I don't even really understand why the designers thought it would be beneficial to have two distinct user-managed areas instead of one. Maybe if I understood the underlying basic benefit of this dichotomy, it would help.