How's about an intelligible Manual for those without a Degree in Sound Engineering?

Rod

After exploring this machine for a couple of weeks I find myself frequently wanting to be able to do a couple of simple things...
1) I'd like to be able to reverse the Curve Type on the Control Assign screen. For example I'd like to make a curve that started at -32 and went to 0.
Yes, I could build my own user curve, but I'd lose the power of the Parameters that a Reversed-Standard Uni curve would give me.
The Motion control pulses have this ability, I think being able to reverse the Control Assign curves would add a lot of additional power.
2) It would be great to have some sort of 'checkpoint' ability that would quickly save the current state of the performance. When I am
editing it's often hard to 'undo' something that seemed like a good idea but didn't work out. Yes, I could save the performance frequently
(which is what I end up doing) but this negates the 'compare' functionality against the original performance. If I could press Enter+Store
to save the current state and Shift+Store to recall that saved state I could edit more boldly.
3) I'd like to see the SuperKnob itself as one of the Source options on the Control Assign screen. Yes, I can assign a Common Knob to a Part
Knob and choose the Part Knob as the Source, but so often I just want to assign the SuperKnob to a destination. There are already 40 or so
options on the source select pop-up, could we just add one more?

The touchscreen keyboard for entering things like the name of a Performance is really starting to annoy me. The problem is the shift key. They have it working like caps lock instead of like a normal shift key.

Let's say I want to call my performance "Rock Jam". I hit shift and type an R. Then I type the next 3 letters and get "ROCK" because I forgot to hit the shift key again after the R.

No other on-screen keyboard that I've ever used works this way!

When you hit shift on every other touchscreen keyboard, it capitalizes the next letter you type and then goes back to lowercase. So I'm used to keyboards working that way, and I keep getting caught typing all caps on my Montage.

Please fix this so that works like every other touchscreen keyboard. There is room on the screen to add a caps lock key, or you can do what many other keyboards do, which is that the shift key locks down if you double-tap it.

Thanks for taking the time to consider my suggestions.
"Other than a visual thing what do you hope will happen with the -32 to 0 Unipolar CURVE?"

Here is a common situation where I'd like to be able to use a Reversed-Standard Uni curve: I am building a performance; I add a new part to the performance; I set the volume of the part so it balances with the existing parts. Now I would like to be able to bring the new part in and out smoothly with the SuperKnob-Foot Pedal (volume wise) without affecting the other parts. I link the SuperKnob to the Part Volume. With a Reversed-Standard curve I could sweep the FootPedal, listen to the sound, and adjust the Ratio and Parameter until I get the effect I'm looking for. With the Standard curve I need to adjust to Part Volume every time I change the Ratio to make it match the balance I had initially determined.
HOWEVER, after putting on my 'Bad Mister' hat and chanting 'I am the machine' a few times I realized...
I can select one of the unused Common Assign Knobs, set it's min value to 127 and it's max value to 0, assign this Common Assign Knob to one of my unused Part Knobs, and use this Part Knob to control the volume with a Standard Curve. Even though visually the curve looks like it is decreasing, the knob now runs it 'backwards'! Montage wins! (It still would be a little simpler to have a reverse-curve option, but this solution works fine)
NB, it is actually possible to get a -32 to 0 curve by choosing parameter values of 0 and 4 on the Smooth Saw curve, but the flexibility of the Standard curve parameter is lost.

Lots of requests - here are a few suggestions to add to the pile:

1) The physical button for "audition" is well designed and in a far corner not easily hit. However, the touchscreen has the audition button adjacent to voices in the Performance Mode Category Search screen. I've inadvertently hit the audition button during practice -- haven't gigged with the Montage yet - but absolutely cannot have the audition playing. A few ways to solve the issue: a) An audition "lock" where neither the physical button nor the touchscreen plays an audition unless configured as unlocked b) Require to hold audition touchscreen (can work for the physical button as well although not as necessary) for 3 seconds to audition. Downside is this is not entirely intuitive although the GUI "could" display a reminder to keep holding to audition, c) Remove audition from touchscreen and require physical button audition, or ...

2) Vs. the Motif series, Montage no longer has effects On/Off physical buttons. Instead, one has to dig down into the settings menus (global) and turn effects on or off. There are situations when I have to play a sound on a gig for an unexpected song - not setup as a performance - so I do a search and pull up a sound that will work. At times the sound is fine except too much reverb/delay/etc. In this case, I would generally hit the effects off button and this sequence of events would take (just barely) the proper amount of time before 1st downbeat of the song. Dealing with multiple buried menus (both category search and effects) is a step in the wrong direction. Having seen applications for a USB keyboard - I'm wondering if some keys can be assigned to what are now missing buttons on the Montage for effects on/off control. Maybe F1, F2, F3. Of course ideally there'd be some feedback if they are on / off (caps lock, num lock, scroll lock have LEDs on some keyboards) but I wouldn't want to make the first-stab at a workaround overly complicated. If any one of the 3 FX variables are off - the touchscreen does show a slash through the FX already. There may also be a way to modify the available hardware keys (like shift + some other 3 buttons defined as master/insertion/system FX on/off) but lack of silkscreen helper may be confusing.

(Almost a year later EDIT)

I did see the Audition lock - so I did lock it. No need for a firmware change there - indeed. Thanks Yamaha for having this base already covered and to BM for helping me (nearly a year ago) see the feature. The response on FX wasn't on-target though. I was aware of the touchscreen disable - but I was looking for a global button. Because I often hear something that isn't working with FX on and go "oh shoot" in the middle of a tune and press the physical effect ON/OFF buttons to compensate for the room when I didn't notice something during soundcheck (if there was even a chance for that). It's gotten me out of the "mud" in certain venues - where usually I run with FX on. The problem with the touchscreen is that it's not great for live play. Outdoor gigs usually don't have the "mud" issue - at least not from FX - where brightness of the screen would be an issue. So ignoring that general issue of the touchscreen (frankly most every single one - some fancy phones solve this to some degree - but I'm sure the screen is a high ticket item for having legibility in the sun). The live issue with the touchscreen is that it's difficult to "no look" turn anything on/off using the touchscreen -- even if it's on the screen you're "looking" at. If the top "FX" button on the touchscreen would turn off FX instead of take you to a menu to deal with FX - this would be almost OK because it's not a crowded space of the GUI and always there. I'm just updating (maybe I updated before somewhere else in the thread) that my request was for a global "quick edit" type control to turn off FX instead of having to menu dive then use the touchscreen. The menu dive is not bad - just one level - and can be reached globally. It's having to fiddle with the touchscreen that's the problem I was attempting to solve with the suggestion. Just wanted to make sure the request was clear. Thanks.

Another request here for assignable faders! It would be great to assign any MIDI CC and channel to each fader for controlling external MIDI gear/DAW, etc. Motif's all had this ability, and it really limits the Montage as a controller without it. Thanks for listening! 😉

Unless I've missed it somewhere, it would be nice to have an option where sliders send their position value as soon as they're moved rather than waiting to "catch" their indicated setting. I get why the current behavior is preferable much of the time, but it would be nice to have an instant update mode too. Sometimes the stored value is at one end of the fader, but the fader itself is at the other end, so you end of doing a lot of fader moving before you get the results you're after.

And second the idea that the LED ladders should all be lit below the indicated value, rather than just a single LED. It would be easier at a quick glance - and it would look cool 😉

Thanks!

I would like to request the next OS update:

1-Have an option to choose the location where to load your new (purchase) Library to the Montage to avoid the Overwrite the old date which is already resident in the Montage.

2- Have an Auto Tempo Sync option with External Drummer to the A/D input jack. its convenience for live performance since you don't have enough time to tap the tempo from the live drummer.

Suggestion:

* When we use Shift + Transpose and modifies the semitone Montage should remain flashing light . When we do this Montage currently does not indicate anything .

* When you download sounds of the DX series , Montage should allow or hear the sound test before generating the total load of data.
It exists on the network much sound as the DX series is old, but also a lot of information is not intended or load data incorrectly. Is there any official link where we can download the factory sounds Dx7 , DX7s , DX7II , TX802 or TX816 ?

* When Yamaha will rise instructional videos for correct handling Montage ?, There's only private users and some official videos on youtube, but none teaches the logical to occupy the maximum capacity of the synthesizer step.

* Because the old MOTIF series , some models are hard to recover user sounds to be used in Montage , there is some support for Motif sounds download software is for instance?

Thanks!!!
Regards.

José
Santiago Chile

BM asked a question up the thread about how someone would use extra scenes, if available.

I'm not the original poster of that suggestion, but can say that more scenes would be "OK".

Futures: It's not going to happen with this version of the Montage - but I'd prefer more scene buttons to go with those extra scenes and for the buttons to be spread out perhaps in a line which runs under the touchscreen. The buttons could be closer to the keybed in this imaginary keyboard with more scenes buttons.

I use scene buttons during a performance as a "hot key" to bring in a new part or set of parts and often while in the middle of playing a line - so proximity to the keys I am playing is useful. Right now, I start from right to left with the scene buttons (8, then 7, then 6) since they are closer to where my left hand is playing a line during the part switch which happens when pressing the scene button. Having a few scene buttons at "finger length" from wherever my hand already is (both left and right) would be ideal with buttons all the way up and down the keyboard. This becomes difficult to realize across 6/7/8 versions - so just more across to somewhere near the middle of the keyboard would be fine.

Bringing it back to today - which I would imagine would mean possibly long hold for the 2nd set of scenes or some other interface change to enable more scenes:

If scenes expand what they can save (there's a running list) then the use of scenes goes up vs. using performances as a means to switch between different "sets" of settings. As a single performance gets more capable of storing changes for either a tune or even sets of tunes or possibly a set or even a gig - use of scenes goes up. Over time, as I use more and more features - there may be feature variations I want to save in a scene (assuming this is a capable for said feature) and the scene use goes up. At the moment my maximum for a performance is 4 scenes. This is because I am starting with a copy of how my previous board was setup with 4 voices in a performance.

The entire usage, for me, of scenes thus far is for mixing. It's still early and the gig count is very low with this board thus far.

By no means am I at the scene limit (healthy margin) - and I'd prefer to see scenes expand in features (what is saved) vs. count at the moment.

A common use case is to duplicate an instrument (two parts, same instrument) in order to shift the instrument to a different range of the keyboard for some different pairing of parts. This is because scene cannot store coarse tuning, note ranges, etc.

Also not supported is saving element levels or assignable knobs in a scene. However, this would be nice in order to save "All 9 Bars!" organ presets as scene changes. With a lot of fancy trickery - there may be complex way to use superknob to save presets (user curves for each element/level destination) but that's a lot of deep editing to work around not saving a knob or slider position and gets away from the 1) easy adjust 2) shift+scene button philosophy that scenes carry now. ... A hammond with 9 factory presets + 2 users presets would take more than 8 scenes (if scenes could store this) - but scene 1 and 2 as variation of Jimmy Smith, a few for Joey, a few for gospel, maybe with and without leslie fast/slow if using scene is preferred over the modwheel.

Chris wrote:

FM shift + part control idea
I see that when this mode is enacted I can control the levels of each operator. It would be neat if this mode also turned the assignable knobs to control the course tuning for each operator as well only in this special mode. This would allow quick control of the various ratios between operators and their levels.

I may be misunderstanding the request.

Under Mod/Control -> Control Assign, AsgnKnob 1-8 can be set to a destination of OP Freq which seems to do what you want. AsgnKnob 1 would have Operator Rate 1 as some non-zero number depending on the direction and depth of the change as you moved the knob. All other (2-8) would be set to 0. Likewise, AsgnKnob 2 would have Operator Rate 2 as some non-zero number ... and 1, 3-8 set to 0. Down the line following this pattern. Using a bipolar standard curve would allow for increasing or decreasing from the nominal frequency and your ratio is yet another scaling factor you can apply to the amount of pitch change per unit of movement of the dial.

This assumes you want faders and assignable knobs to both act on operator-level destinations (not part).

You mention "part" but at one point, but then describe faders as operator-level and seemingly the knobs as operator level as well.

Hi my wishlist would be (setlist changes):

1. Adding i.e. pitchcontrol for the setlist slot. Now only the volume can be changed...
2. Adding indexing (sequences) to the setlist slots so they can be ordered.
3. Addind text to the setlist slots for adding chords/lyrics data.

Kind regards,
Leo.

@ (and with) Chris:

A dedicated Analog synth like the EX5/7 had (probably others - I have an EX5R so it's my reference) would be a fairly heavy lift unless there's an "easter egg" waiting to hatch. I doubt the hardware to do another engine is inside and there is no expansion port for hardware which could be added and mixed into the signal chain like previous products. The strategy of Montage is to be the "best" at being a rompler (AWM2) and FM synth (FM-X) - and I did purchase the board to be those two things while knowing I'd have to get something else for a more "pure" analog side. On that note, sympathetic response, and other modeling type functions would be great, but I also know this is not a Vx series engine either.

The knob deal - I wouldn't mind having more options in terms of knobs. Myself, I haven't run out yet - but I understand what your application is. If you want all of this to be motion controlled - it would cut fairly deep to have to modify all the sub-menus to support the new knobs. Maybe just "real-time" control for the other knobs - I think this would suit what you're after. For real-time knobs I would prefer to access them by pressing [SHIFT] + [TONE], [SHIFT] + [EQ/FX], [SHIFT + [ARP/MS] and have those tone, eq, arp buttons flash when the assignable knobs are in real-time control bank 1, 2, and 3. The bigger problem is that this ("only" real-time control) still requires having assignable knobs added to the interface (even if not motion or superknob controlled) which seems like a lot of items to update.

EDIT 10/5:

Adding all these knobs, and from the other discussion of destination limit of 16 - you can see how there would also need to be a firmware change to add more destinations (24 new ones for the above) just to support the knob assignments per PART. Since the MIDI mapping seems to be 00-1A for one "set" adding another 3 sets of 16 (so each new knob can get 2 destinations - matching the current limitation of 2 destinations per knob assuming no other destination assignments) - then this would mean the MIDI addressing would be 4x0x1A = 0x68. Seems like there's the "space" from a MIDI addressing standpoint - but then also adding all these destinations also means lots of other areas of the interface need to be addressed to support this (more pages on the destination Control Assign screen, more internal routing = "registers" in hardware terms or just variables in software terms). This routing, I'm not sure if it is done in hardware or software. If hardware - not sure if it is FPGA code (which can be changed - but has limits) or software - which can be modified and has relatively less limits post-launch.

:End of edit 10/5

My firmware request which would be related to knobs is likely already in the thread - to enable more destinations for the existing assignable knobs. EDIT - just realized this could mean two things - a higher destination count (more than 16) - which would be nice certainly. But I was meaning originally more destination parameters. Since there's a limited list vs. what could possibly be tweaked.

I guess also some more options on the curve type. Currently, there is no way to get more than 8 whole-number-only results from the Control Assign curve (actually, you can get a slope of 1 for all whole numbers). You can use a user curve with steps which gives you only 8 whole numbers. If you use a preset 1, type 5 - EDIT - you CAN realize the formula y=x for all values on a standard curve (whole numbers) from 0 to 127. Since the formula (unipolar) is y=(2*ratio/100)*Controller_Value where Controller_Value is the input value - setting a ratio of 50 gets you y=1*Controller_Value (slope of 1). -50 for ratio, negative slope with all whole numbers. So this request is slightly less important now I have the math correct. But forcing whole numbers even for more random looking waveforms would be of use for certain instances.

EDIT - deleted incorrect math previous.

So it would be great to either enable a round() or trunc() feature - because items like coarse or pitch make most sense in whole number increments - but still allow fractional values. A user curve with more than 8 "sections" would be great. Maybe not 128 sections (full control) - but more than today. It would, however, be great if we can edit user curves in an XLS file with all 128 input values (0-127) and assign an output value. In order to make curves, the excel formulas could be used to produce different curves so it is not like we would have to manually assign all 128 values. Since the existing curves allow for fractional values - the excel spreadsheet user curve editor should allow for fractional values at all of the 128 input values.

Also, since linear user curves can result in fractional outputs - any plan on having fractional values (65.594) support for the existing user curve step outputs? Not sure how many significant digits the current curves have in their fractional values. It'd be tough to touch-screen maybe just one place (65.6).

The idea behind the XLS user curve would be we save it in a curve "Library" that would not be the same as a user curve. User curves can be edited and have a limit on how many sections (8 today, maybe 16 in the future? maybe still 8). And therefore these XLS spreadsheet curves would not be something you would edit with the touchscreen - but would load into the library as a choice and look like preset curves - except have your custom curve (library entry) name. Maybe "custom curve" is enough of a distinction vs. "user curve" and "preset curve".

I wish it was somehow easier to setup splits and layers (takes quite a few steps) and not have to set the split point each time you swap a sound in a performance.

Chris wrote:

Sorry I dont see the individual operators course tuning as an option to assign to a knob. In fact I dont see any element level assignment available for fm.

1) [CATEGORY SEARCH]
2) Touchscreen (TS): Init, Init Normal (FM-X)
3) TS: Select part 1, Edit
4) TS: "Mod / Control" -> "Control Assign"
Note: just showing options, so not concerned about source
5) TS: Press [+] to add destination (may have to choose a source if one doesn't show up as default - Modwheel showed up for me - which is fine)
6) TS: Popup shows "FM Param" as a category.

For FM Operator destinations, I also do not see fine or coarse tuning options available for FM-X. The closest element-level adjustment is to detune.

At the part-level (affecting all elements equally), there is a "Pitch" parameter which can act as either coarse or fine tuning depending on the values. EDIT: throwing out my earlier statement about lack of freq. control.

When I first tried "Operator Freq" and did not hear a change - I assumed maybe this was changing the parameter fixed/ratio. This would indeed make a difference since the same "values" make a different change to the frequency - but it would be strange to have this as a destination and not the frequency itself. Here's where I went wrong initially, and possibly you as well:

Unlike AWM2 which defaults all the ELEMENTS to "ON" when you add an ELEMENT destination, adding an OPERATOR destination does not default the OPERATORS as "ON". For OPERATORS - there is more control - you get to set a "rate" per operator which is default at +0 (or no modification to the operator). Change this to some positive or negative value per OPERATOR and see you have as much control over element frequency/pitch/tuning (pick your synonym) as you want.

What tripped me up was the lack of commonality in approach between the AWM2 and FM-X destination defaults for essentially the same kind of process. I'll have to keep this in mind as I assign destinations in FM-X once I get there.