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Before opening the "Return Tips" spam thread, I had hoped that maybe it might be someone asking about adding the functionality to the Montage for the ability to "return" to the previous state (basically an "Undo" button), because as many of you have experienced, there is nothing worse than accidentally make the wrong change (i.e. copying an Element to another, only to find out I just overwrote by accident an Element I want to keep & it should have been Element 5 not Element 4 that I copied it to ... true story from last night).
Are these new spam threads via bots that create new Yamahasynth accounts & then post new threads!? I think they are barking up the wrong tree trying to spam this site, because everyone on here is super focused on Synth questions, issues, discussions... But they have given an ok idea for a new discussion thread though :p
So, since they got me thinking about a previous idea that I added to IdeaScale: Add an Undo/Redo Button for when Modifying a Performance
... I thought I'd add in/re-share some of the ideas that I've had & added to ideascale, with a few notes for discussion. Just the ones that I would make the most use of and that I think are possible to implement in an OS update without too much programming & re-engineering.
Also, since Yamaha may release an OS update in the months to come, it wouldn't hurt for them to have a refresher on what ideas are most asked for, in case this somehow reminds them of past ideas and potentially affects what ones may be implemented in the next OS release (if there is one)...
I am happy with what I already have and don't expect anything more, but if they do add more enhancements it would be a bonus...plus it's sometimes just fun to discuss various ideas for improvements & new functionality! 😀
Here are my top ideas in relatively the order of importance or usefulness to me & possibly others:
1. Add an Undo/Redo Button for when Modifying a Performance This one is probably the one I would utilize the most. I'd be curious if there is a workaround that can do this in not such an intuitive easy "click of a button" kind of way? (I thought Jason may have found a way to do this - Return tips lol...!?)
2. Add new FM-X Algorithms with the 2 Additional Operators Stacked As we've discussed in other threads, this one just compliments the other variations of ideas for FM-X improvements regarding algorithms/operators and I've Up Voted all the ones I've seen on Ideascale 😉
3. Add Element ON/OFF Switch Control to 'Scenes' This would allow for more possible combinations of Elements from AWM2 PARTs via Scenes on just the 8 KBD CTRL PARTs (1-8) then we would ever use, but I think would pretty much remove the need to add PARTs 9-16 to have KBD CTRL, as we could utilize unused Element combinations from various PARTs that we currently can't.
4. Add Ambient Shimmer Reverb Insert Effect I think it would be good to have this type of effect, so that we wouldn't have to utilize multiple effects to achieve the same/similar effect sound. If they are planning to add any new effects in an OS update, I would think this one is popular enough these days to be one of the top candidates to add in.
5. Velocity Scaling - 4 Key Break Point Velocity 'Depth' Scaling This idea came from back when I demoed the MODX8 and was so frustrated with the keybed not being able to trigger the sample velocities properly across the board for Pianos specifically. Not only would this allow MODX8 owners to fix their GHS keybed velocity triggering, but it could be useful for programming and sound design in general on the Montage and all other MODX(+) synths besides the MODX8(+)
6. Save Custom Effects Settings to User Mem &/or Copy to other PART Many have agreed that this would be useful, utilized and for some, necessary.
7. Yamaha VRM (Sympathetic String Resonance) on Montage/MODX Pianos I know Yamaha have added a patent somewhat recently (around the same time as the one for the AN-X patent), and I think it would be doable as a virtual modelled based Insert effect...
8. Save & Recall the SONG that's loaded when a Performance is Saved This would definitely be helpful after saving User memory to a .X7U, wipe user memory for whatever reason, then reload the saved .X7U
I think it would be useful if the song mid was saved with the custom Performances
9. Improved Rotary Simulation Effect Modeled after YC Rotary Effect This one I may modify or add a new idea for, because after recently watched a few comparisons of the YC rotary effects against others, including the Neo Ventilator II & Hammond Digital Leslie pedal, a Nord & IK Multimedia Hammond B-3X virtual modelled organ, the YC doesn't really sound as much like a Leslie as I hoped. Even the two Rotary 1 effects used on the Organimation organs sounds far closer to a Leslie effect than the various YC rotary effects do. So this one I am thinking will not happen on the Montage/MODX(+), because if they do implement anything as an Insert effect, it will likely be based off the YC technology...
10. Yamaha C7 Grand Piano Library for Montage/MODX And for good measure, as well as to get an even 10, I'll throw this in the ring, especially now that the MODX+ has enough User memory to handle extra piano libraries. I don't necessarily need this one anymore since I sampled my Synthogy Ivory C7 using SampleRobot; however since all other Yamaha synths (YC, CP, Genos) have the C7 and the only synths that do not are the Montage/MODX(+), I think Yamaha should provide this in a library, the same way they provided the Bosendorfer library... I understand Yamaha likely want to keep their partnered software vendors happy & it's likely because of the Epic Grand C7 library that they haven't provided a free library to us; However I think the Epic Grand has been out long enough and likely made enough sales that this may no longer affect their sales as much now... Besides, the Epic Grand is not that great IMHO, and Montage/MODX(+) owners deserve better! 😉
Posted : 16/11/2022 2:32 pm
Topic starter
I played around with with Recall for a bit and it does kinda work, but not like an undo button. It was unpredictable where in the chain of changes it would recall back to, especially when making numerous changes and it either goes several changes back or sometimes not at all.
But hopefully each of the change states are trackable and could be set to go back by 'x' number of single changes. Or even if it can only be set to go back to the last change made, that would help when making a big mistake such as I did last night. Which would make it even possible to implement an Undo button...
I probably made about 10 tweaks before I accidentally chose the wrong Element number to copy to, so I had to close out the Performance, select another Performance temporarily and go back to the one I was editing and start from scratch.
Posted : 17/11/2022 2:05 am
Recall is limited (not the same as "undo" as we would expect such a button to work). However, it saved by hide several times with "oops" moments.
Where it goes back to is wherever you were when you switched away from the Performance you want to recall. That other post details what that's all about.
If you want to do a pseudo-undo then you would also need to prime the recall pump by intentionally moving away from your Performance without saving, using recall (now your original Performance is restored) and then make whatever edits you want to do. If you mess up during your edits then recall will place you back to your intentional memory save of recall (priming the pump).
The big problem with this is that it requires intentional actions to push what you want into the recall buffer. Typically when you want to use an "undo" -- you haven't done very disciplined things to begin with. So to say "just prime the pump, then do something bad if you want, then recall" is a big ask and not so in-line with how these problems usually manifest.
BUT ...
Maybe you're like me and half the time when you get into trouble it's just from changing to a different Performance without saving what you wanted to (or there's certain operations that strangely load a different Performance when that's not what you were trying to do). That brand of "oops" already saved the version of the edit buffer you want to recall. So recall saves your hide too (like it has for me several times). And this particular "oops" is one I tend to notice before trashing the recall buffer by navigating away from the 2nd Performance. However, it's like SSS. You can't make two jumps because then the chain back to your desired edit buffer is broken.
I completely agree that the only "undo"-ish feature could use a facelift. If not this generation (due to hardened core if that's where this lives) then some next generation.
I think generally Yamaha really could spend a week or two to review all of the features and ask the question, "is this consistent with modern technology standards?" The recall buffer method was probably great in a time when devices were generally less sophisticated. Today it's out-of-step with a reasonable expectations of keyboardists who invest into Yamaha's vision of musical expression. The file system in general is one of these aging/needs revamping things. There are several other areas of deficiency when asking the previous question. I'm not sure which are most important to tackle - but a "proper" undo seems like a good one that's fairly universal.
Posted : 17/11/2022 3:39 am
re Point 9 - As a YC and Montage owner, I would very much like the updated rotary FX (studio) from the YC to be available in the Montage. For me, the weak part of any Hammond simulation is in the Leslie, not so much the accuracy of the tonewheel samples. The Studio Leslie in the YC is pretty good and a huge improvement on the original version, which you may be basing your assessment on.
Posted : 17/11/2022 3:54 am
Topic starter
[quotePost id=119310]re Point 9 - As a YC and Montage owner, I would very much like the updated rotary FX (studio) from the YC to be available in the Montage. For me, the weak part of any Hammond simulation is in the Leslie, not so much the accuracy of the tonewheel samples. The Studio Leslie in the YC is pretty good and a huge improvement on the original version, which you may be basing your assessment on. [/quotePost]
Interesting, I just re-checked one of the videos comparing the YC to the Neo Ventilator and someone chatted requesting they redo the comparison using the new YC update 1.2, then after checking the updated YC rotary effect, it is vastly improved and would be awesome on the Montage/MODX(+) !
Posted : 17/11/2022 1:20 pm
I think Yamaha "nailed" the wish for improving the rotating speaker on the YC (not yet available for Montage or MODX). It sounded much improved to me and others seemed to agree.
Maybe not the top industry leader in rotating speaker simulation - but at least now very competitive with those top dogs.
I'm not much of a tonewheel player so my music isn't necessarily impacted. However, I do have organ parts that may benefit should Montage/MODX receive a similar update to the rotating speaker as YC. IMO, the current rotating speakers available in Montage/MODX are passable and I don't cringe when playing organ even if the rotating speaker isn't optimal. There are other sounds that I "have" to use that do make me cringe and those sounds are not organ related.
Posted : 17/11/2022 3:04 pm
Topic starter
[quotePost id=119316]I think Yamaha "nailed" the wish for improving the rotating speaker on the YC (not yet available for Montage or MODX). It sounded much improved to me and others seemed to agree.
Maybe not the top industry leader in rotating speaker simulation - but at least now very competitive with those top dogs.[/quotePost]
Yeah I agree. I had the YC written off as not that great until I watched a video after the upgrade and wow, what a noticeable difference.
IMO, the current rotating speakers available in Montage/MODX are passable and I don't cringe when playing organ even if the rotating speaker isn't optimal. There are other sounds that I "have" to use that do make me cringe and those sounds are not organ related.
If memory serves me correctly, the single violins that all have vibrato and no good fiddle sounds would likely be on your cringe list, eh!?
Posted : 18/11/2022 12:52 pm
You recall correctly.
Posted : 18/11/2022 4:28 pm
