And please don´t tell me I need to contact Steinberg, cos it´s got something to do with the setup of the Montage in Elements 11.

here are my settings. what is wrong?

here are my settings. what is wrong?

There is nothing wrong with those settings, but they have little to do with your current issue. Which is…

Everyting I learned about recording automation curves and eveything that has always worked in Cubase elements 10 and still works very well does not work with my upgrad to Elements 11.

Your first screenshot shows that you have your Audio Connection > Inputs setup… not really anything to do with your automation issue.
Your second screenshot (at least has something to do with MIDI) shows that you are able to Receive MIDI Input to MIDI Tracks from the MONTAGE on port 1. Excellent. This will allow you to record notes, controllers, etc, from the MONTAGE.
Your third screenshot shows that you have all Audio Bus inputs active as if you are getting ready to record 32 bus audio inputs. Again, nothing really to do with your Automation issue. But it does mean that your MONTAGE Parts are each being routed to separate audio bus Outputs. Are you setting up for MIDI Record? Or Audio Record?

Go to Edit > Preferences > MIDI > MIDI Filter (take a screenshot)
Go to main Cubase Track screen — showing the Inspector for an active MIDI Track (take a screenshot)
Be sure to mention what MONTAGE Performance you are recording.

And please don´t tell me I need to contact Steinberg, cos it´s got something to do with the setup of the Montage in Elements 11.

Could be, but you don’t mention what you have setup in the MONTAGE. I agree every problem has a cause, how you are concluding this, only you know. Please provide information on your MONTAGE settings. You only provided Cubase info… if you are sure it is the MONTAGE settings give us an idea where you think this something is …

my Montage settings are the same as with Cubase Elements 10. Quicksetting set to arp record. What else is there to do? As far as what performance I am recording: it doesn´t work with any performance.

Be sure to mention what MONTAGE Performance you are recording. Pick one for an example.
I don’t see any data on that MIDI Track… are you able to record MIDI data to that Track?
Mention which controllers you are moving so we can be on the same page about what CC messages to look for…

I have used Multi Saw MW DA

The first screenshot is Cubase Elements 10. Superknob, cutoff and resonance have been recorded as curves. All knobs can be turned while recording.

The second screenshot is the exact same thing with Elements 11. Superknob has been recorded as a curve. cutoff and resonance knobs cannot be turned when the part is selected. (something that never happens in Elements 10). They can only be turned when the performance is selected. But they do not get recorded as a curve. And extracting the animation does not work either. The animation plays back, it can be heard, but no curve.

In both scenarios, the animation can only be heard after setting the midi channel to 1. when it is set to "all channels", the animation does not play back.

I find significant differences in the second screenshot setup (reported to be Cubase Elements 11) from the setup in the first screenshot (Cubase Elements 10). Are you saying that the setup is identical?
It is not.

In the Cubase Element 10 screenshot, you have the MIDI TRACK set to Channelize the playback (Out) to channel 1. This means the Knobs you have written as Automation to be properly displayed as data on MIDI Channel 1. Significantly, this is the channel on which you generated the data. The reason I know you generated this data on Channel 1 of the MONTAGE is because each CC message has a Lane to itself.

In order to get separate R/W graphic for cc74 Cutoff/Brightness, and 71 Resonance/Harmonic Content, this means you *selected* PART 1 when recording the Knob movements.

In the second (Cubase Elements 11) screenshot, you have the MIDI TRACK set to be channelized on playback on the channel the data arrived on… and because when you recorded into Cubase Elements 11 you did not *select* Part 1, but instead had the Performance Name on the HOME screen highlighted, turning the Cutoff and Resonance Knobs would create a message that is COMMON and would address all channels, all Parts, it’s data is not written to Cubase as CC Channel messages, but rather is written as System Exclusive data.

CC messages, by definition, can only be generated as a Channel Message. It is sent when you have selected a PART. Each Part being a separate channel.

When you *select* a PART, take a look at both of the Quick Edit screens above (also take a look at Michael’s chart) - when a Part is *selected* the TONE Knob row generates the channel messages CC74 and CC71 from the first two Knobs.

However, when you select the HOME screen (the Performance Name highlighted) notice on the Quick Edit screen (and on Michael’s chart) the selection reads “Common” - for a message to be Common so all 16 Parts can respond, is necessarily (by definition) not going to be a channel CC message, but is going to be Sysex. And Sysex is NOT converted to Automation by Cubase that is why you do not see it in your Automation Lanes. This is true in all versions of Cubase!

On the HOME screen, first View, you can see the 8 Knobs. What they are set to SEND is identified just to the left of the first Knob icon. It will display “Common” or “Part x” followed by the current area of the architecture it is addressing (each Knob having a parameter)… Let’s use the first of the eight Knobs as an example,..
__ if the first “Quick Edit” row is selected it will read either “Common Tone” or “Part x Tone”, depending on whether a Part is *selected* or not. “Common Tone” = Sysex, “Part Tone” = CC. That first Knob is Cutoff, and will either address every Filter in every sound, or it will address just the Cutoff Frequency of the Filters in Part 1.
__ if the [ASSIGN] button is lit, the function of the Knobs are either “Common Assign” or “Part x Assign” (when a Part is selected).

Back to the Problem:
But now back to the main point… if you did the same thing in Cubase 10, it would do the exact same thing you are seeing in Cubase 11. The point is in one instance you were properly generating Channel Messages (CC74 and CC71), and in the other you were sending Sysex messages. It has nothing to do with Elements 10 or Elements 11 as versions of software… but has to do with you not *selecting* the Part when you wanted to generate CC messages.

Now that you know, prove it to yourself…. Try and make the right thing happen in both, then strictly for learning purposes, prove to yourself, that if you do the exact same thing in both versions, the exact same thing happens!

Rule: When you want to have Cubase convert your Controller movements to automation, you must be sure you are set to send CC messages from that physical control (we actually went over that in one of your many threads on this same topic)…

__ by *selecting* Part 1 and turning the Cutoff Knob, you generate cc74 with that Knob
__ by turning that same Knob while in a Common area, you generate Sysex.

This why you can hear the result, but you just do not see it. Because Sysex is not converted to Automation using your methodology. The conversion to Automation in Cubase is exclusively for Channel CC message. Sysex is able to address all 16 Parts (whether they are there yet or not… sys = system and refers to the entire instrument.

When you want to write CC automation from the MONTAGE on a particular Channel, be sure you are set SEND that information as CC on that channel. You do so by *selecting* the PART. When you select a Part you’re guaranteed to be transmitting on its channel.

Extra Credit:
It is, in fact, fairly normal to have *selected* the Part you are recording to your DAW software. When you think about your normal workflow when recording MIDI Tracks, you normally *select* the Part. Doing so not only makes the 24 Quick Edit Knobs send data to the instrument you are playing (as we have explained above), it makes the 8 Assign Knobs recall the assignments to address this particular Part.

If you start thinking of each MONTAGE PART slot as a separate synth on its own Channel, with a 32 Knob front panel, it’s own MW, PB Wheel, Foot Controllers, Ribbon, Aftertouch, etc., etc., etc. you can see how the Controllers become apart of this synth when you *select* it. A selected MONTAGE Part is very much the equivalent to playing a Motif XF Voice… all controls focus on the one instrument sound.

A Multi Part, KBD CTRL Performance where you are addressing several Parts simultaneously… new rules and Sysex is often used so each individual instrument sound under your control can act and respond individually… you want the drums to respond differently than the Bass, the Bass differently than the guitar, etc., etc.,

Hope that helps. And thanks for taking the time to be curious enough to post… we recognize that there are many (many) musicians in the same place with all of this. So stick with it… it will start to come together. And thanks for those last two screenshots — they really helped me see what you were missing.

sorry, there is a confusion here. the screenshots do not represent exactly how I recorded. I set both Cubase 10 and 11 to ALL midi channels when recording. I only later set both of them to midi channel 1 cos otherwise the automation does not play back. I took the screenshot of cubase 11 before setting it to channel 1.

and it is impossible to record automation of the cutoff and resonance knobs in Cubase 11 because the knobs are frozen when selecting the part. this is never the case in Cubase 10. knobs work.

But yes, I understand now that I could not extract the automation because performance was selected and it was sysex. I should have known that since I saw the great chart posted here. But when selecting the part, nothing works. knobs are FROZEN.

I guess this problem cannot be resolved and I will have to discard the update and go with the old Cubase Elements 10. since you say the setup of the Montage is correct, then how can we find out what is going on here? something is fishy, but what could it be?......

sorry, there is a confusion here. the screenshots do not represent exactly how I recorded.

Please provide screenshot of exactly what you did (or don’t bother with screenshots). I can get it to work just fine.

well, I recorded exactly the same way with both softwares. midi channel set to ALL. (update: or rather as I now know, thank you Jason, is called ANY in the english version of Cubase, but ALL in the german version.)

realizing that the ANY setting doesn´t playback the automation, I figured out I had to change the channel to 1, which I did on both recordings.

when recording with cubase 10, I selected the part and turned cutoff and resonance and it recorded the curves.

tried the same with cubase 11 and the knobs are frozen. that´s why I switched to selecting the perofmance, just to test, and the knobs could be turned and recorded (as sysex, not to be extracted, which was the screenshot, but I tried selecting the part before that and knobs were frozen) the superknob was not frozen and generated a curve.

that´s about it.

UPDATE: I went thru that midi message chart and tested every single knob. see the attachement. I marked all the knobs that are not frozen in green, the ones that work and generate a curve in green and blue and the ones that are frozen in red.

so sysex works all the time. knobs generating sysex are never frozen.

but only CC5,10, 24, 91 and 94 are not frozen

the majority, CC17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75 are frozen.

Does this make ANY sense?

well, I recorded exactly the same way with both softwares. midi channel set to ALL

Is this an accurate description?

I ask because the word "ALL" is typically associated with the selection of the MIDI input DEVICE. Not a MIDI channel.

When you have multiple devices - say a Montage and a YC61 and both of these MIDI devices are USB connected to your computer - you can tell a MIDI track to "listen" to multiple MIDI devices so, in this example, BOTH the Montage and YC61 can send their MIDI output to the input of a MIDI track. Cubase has a place where you can configure which devices and which port(s) of those devices participate in the special "All MIDI Inputs" device. Even though it says "all" - it really means "all you've allowed to be a part of All MIDI Inputs".

Is this the "ALL" you're talking about? It doesn't let you restrict your Montage by MIDI CHANNEL.

It does, however, let you define which PORTS (of Montage) participate in the "All MIDI Inputs". Because you can check or uncheck any, all, or some of the Montage PORTS from the "All MIDI Inputs" pool. In typical usage - you would want to remove MONTAGE-2 (PORT 2 = remote control) from "All MIDI Inputs". If you are not interested in having your Montage's 5-pin DIN MIDI connected devices (or do not even have any devices connected to Montage's 5-pin DIN MIDI port) then you would also want to remove MONTAGE-3 (PORT 3 = Montage's 5-pin DIN) from "All MIDI Inputs".

This is about the only place Cubase refers to MIDI routing as "ALL" - in the special construct of "All MIDI inputs". The resolution of configuration you have here are PORTS and PORTS are not the same as CHANNELS. One Port has all 16 channels of MIDI inputs and 16 channels of MIDI outputs. Montage's USB cable communicates over 3 PORTS between the computer and Montage with Port-1 as the tone generator/piano keys/controllers, Port-2 as remote control, and Port-3 as a way to connect to the MIDI bus of the 5-pin DIN ports.

If you change "All MIDI Inputs" to MONTAGE-1, then "MONTAGE-1" means Montage Port 1. NOT Montage MIDI channel 1. There's a different place to configure the MIDI channel.

For starters, it is fine to setup your MIDI Input device as MONTAGE-1 in order to avoid some pitfalls of misconfigured "All MIDI Inputs".

Sorry for being redundant - but it's an important distinction to recognize. To know what a Port is. To know where the currently used Montage Port is reported/configured. Also to know what a MIDI channel is, how it relates to Ports (and isn't equivalent), and where MIDI channels are configured.

Moving on to MIDI channels - the language for selecting more than one MIDI channel in Cubase is the word "Any" (not All). "ALL" is already used by the special "All MIDI Inputs" composite device. It's good that the word for many MIDI channels is different because it helps to illustrate how these two concepts are different. When you set the MIDI channel to "Any" - the track will accept on its input any MIDI channel on input. When the track is routed as THRU - this will "echo" messages coming in from the MIDI Input port back out to the MIDI output port. When used as THRU and set to "Any" MIDI data received on any given input MIDI channel will output the same message to the same channel used by the incoming message. This is key for using Montage in Multi-channel MIDI mode. Your MIDI track should be set to "Any".

Maybe you have a typo - although you repeated the typo if that was the case.

This kind of stuff is fundamental to keep straight as a lack of clarity on these concepts can have a ripple effect of misconfiguration or guessing. The signs are there that more homework is needed. That's fine - don't sweat it. Breathe in/out all that zen stuff. Do you necessarily have to know this? Maybe not - but not knowing some of this can work against you if you think you're setting a channel but you're really setting a port. They do different things.

or ...

... picture is similar for Port-3 which is connects the 5-pin DIN MIDI ports (out/in) to the DAW.

Following images show how Cubase's MIDI Thru Active works ...

Jason, thank you but that´s what I meant anyway. Midi CHANNELS set to ANY. BUT in my the german version of Cubase the midi channels are called "ALL" instead of "ANY", as you can see in the screenshot.
The frozen knobs behaviour is the SAME btw when I set this midi channel to 1 instead of any. it doesn´t matter.

Ahh.. English Cubase/Montage/MIDI(e) German Cubase/Montage/MIDI(g)

Seems easy enough. Hats off for navigating.

If you want incoming MIDI CC messages to control the Montage’s Common-level assignable knobs, the control numbers in those CC messages need to match the bottom two rows of this display:

You can change those CC numbers if you like.

Excellent suggestion Michael… if your Knobs are “frozen” you can STOP…Cubase is not receiving your data. So as Michael is suggesting, looking for a setting in Cubase that does not involve sending the MIDI IN back to the MONTAGE is meaningless. When you move a Controller on the MONTAGE you should see MIDI information on the MIDI Activity meter on the Track… and of course, you should see and hear it on the MONTAGE… if not, don’t bother to record. It’s like the circuit is not complete. The lamp is not properly plugged in — turning it On repeatedly does not make the bulb light. You need to ensure the proper connection.

All Knobs should move before you record. If they are frozen STOP. There is no need to RECORD.
A frozen Knob = I am NOT READY TO RECORD
All knobs should move, not just some of them. If only some of them move you are NOT READY TO RECORD. Don’t even bother.
Fix this first.

First place to look is here:

[COMMON] > “Control” > “Control Number”

Screenshot, please. Or at least verify that your are SENDING the following from the MONTAGE.
For example, what CC is your Super Knob set to SEND?
What do you have your Super Knob CC set to? CC = 5? Really, Why?

Steinberg Automation…