[quotePost id=123117]
It's not simple or very intuitive. It takes some practice using features with persistence in order to come to grips with motion sequences.[/quotePost]

Right!
My first work with it was also the hardest project. Til today not cleared. After I watched Moessieurs videos, I tried to craft the wished effect (of an arp) by MS und with my logic. Means: build this arpeggio with those bars. Did not function. Therefore I experimented. Long story, short end: I got it and it functions perfectly. The effect is perfect! But ... the parameters I adjusted are not like Moessieurs told. I wrote a bit with him. He told a bit. But I don't want to spoil his time, which he doesn't have 😉 99% I worked out, what I crafted there. But - I don't remember now - one parameter "1st on" or "Beat" is not according to the theory. But any other option spoils it. Strange.
It also took some time to understand, that I created a "negative image" lane. You know, that it is redundant.
This whole story did not encourage me to keep busy with this MS stuff. And seemingly I don't have songs, that require it.

When it comes to the parameter-assignment ... I simply switch between "bi" and "uni", turn the wheel and listen, what happens. Silly ... but absolutely effective! 😉 ... a question of seconds. A few days ago with a multi-element-arpeggio I made ... bi/uni, turn ... 20 seconds ... assignment finetuned! Thinking (dangerous!), counting, calculate values ... waste of time *lol

Interesting information from you: the initial values!
Exactly a little problem I still have with this multi-arpeggio. The first note is full throttle, then it runs correctly. But no time/delight to research that. I first constructed it the complicated way. I did not plan it as a multi-element-arpeggio. So I assigned different velocities over Envelope Follower to the Cutoff. Elegantly would be: 2 elements, and there define volumes and cutoff. If I have time...

This conversation brought me to a simple idea. Tomorrow I will activate this MS lane for all parts. Then I can hear, when it is doing what. The more I think about it, the more questions coming up. Nothing is logical at the moment. And you made me curious now 😀 Btw it is N°2: cutoff open/close.

Greetings

Tomorrow I will activate this MS lane for all parts.

Not sure just what you need so just to be clear - The lanes for a part are totally separate and distinct from the lanes for any other part.

Each part can have up to 4 lanes of its own. But 'lane 1' for part 1 is unique - no other part can share that the same lane. Another parts 'lane 1' is a different lane altogether.

Same with the motion sequences. The motion sequence you define or load for a lane can NOT be shared with another lane of the same part or of another part. If you two lanes or motion sequences to be the same you need to load them, or define them separately.

The Motion Seq -> Lane display has two buttons: Load Sequence and Edit Sequence. Use the Load Sequence button to load a previously stored sequence.

Use the Edit sequence button to go to a screen where you can specify the details of the sequence. That screen has a 'Store Sequence' button to save your finished sequence. The screen also duplicates the Load Sequence button to make it easy to grab a previously saved sequence for modification.

EXTRA CREDIT: Often forgotten is the fact that ALL lanes and motion sequence slots have default sequences already defined whether you ever activate those unused parts or lanes.

It is not possible to create a sequence from scratch because any time you enter the editor either the default sequence or one of your modified ones will be waiting for you.

You can also twiddle Performance level values with the SuperKnob via Performance Level..

That sounds interesting. Can you explain how that is done?

I don't see 'Performance Level' as a destination. Where do I find it?

So are you saying you don't know how to do it?

Just to clean something up since I was going from memory before:

The MS Lane output (not input) resets to 0 for unipolar pulses. This is part of motion sequence (not to be confused with control assignment curves). At the top there should be an "amplitude" parameter. If you see this, you're in the right spot.

The MS Lane output resets to 64 for bipolar pulses.

It doesn't matter what the pulse shapes are or what's on the right or left or middle of the pulse. The output of an MS Lane is forced to either 0 or 64 depending on the polarity when reset.

Note that turning off MS is something that will cause it to reset. Either the system MS or the Part level MS. When switching from MS active to inactive, you'll hear things jump around if you haven't taken care of the reset condition and expect to turn on/off MS.

Since MS will reset to 0 or 64 - depending on how you have your pulses setup (polarity) - you would want to make sure that when in the reset position that your control assignment (with source as MS Lane and destination as some parameter) has the offset you want at the curve input=0 (left side of graph) position or curve input=64 (middle of graph between far left and far right).

I realize most of this is not cleanup and mostly repeat. However I believe now everything above is consistent with how the system operates.

Also, I guess it's worth saying that the operation is predictable. There's not a ghost in the machine. However, there are lots of "rules" (i.e. "gotchas" ) to discover.

Have fun and certainly hang in there if you need or want MS to do something you can't otherwise get done with LFOs, arps, envelope generators (AEG, PEG, FEG), etc.

There's something wrong with you if you've forgotten this page:

That page makes no mention of 'performance level' control by the super knob.

The 'Volume' level for a part can be assigned to a part assignable knob which can then be controlled by a common knob controlled by the super knob.

But I don't know of any way to have the super knob control the 'performance level' as you stated. If you know how to do it please post the details.

Performance level values and parameters are referred to as the Common Assignable Knob routes, as this is automatically wired up, and the key, signature feature of the device you've bought.

You don't need do anything to wire these up, they 8 assignable COMMON knobs are wired automatically. You can then assign each of those knobs to the Performance level values you want to have adjusted by the SuperKnob.

Got it?

No - I don't 'got it.

I think I'm not clear on just what you mean by 'performance level values'. Could you explain that please?

What is the set of 'performance level values' that I can have the super knob adjust? Not part level values, but performance level values.

I am aware of the part level values (destinations) that can be assigned to a part level knob. There is a pop-up menu for those when you select a control assign destination.

But I am NOT aware of any performance level parameters that affect all parts and that can be assigned to the super knob or to a common knob.

If I want the super knob to adjust Volume for all of the parts I have to assign 'part Volume' as a destination for each part. I don't know of any way to assign 'performance volume' (or any other performance level parameter).

If you go into Control Assign for Common, and hit the add button you can see them all.

So are you talking about the 'Ins A', 'Ins B', 'Reverb', 'Variation', 'Master Effect' and 'AD Param' choices on the drop-down?

If so - now I got it.

I think it was 'Performance Level values' that threw me off.

@Jason

Could you do me the favour and address me by my name?
Those 2 others are talking about things, that I know and what I am not talking about. I don't know, why they/one address/es me.

Please do so, simply because, what you are describing, I cannot connect either to what I told. What you are describing is not affecting me afaik; very deep into electronic circuits.
And perhaps you got me wrong. "Level" (value) issues I only had with this one and only arp I crafted and this unlucky assignment I did. Because I am aware of this "hash", I constructed (which functions well), I don't expect or request any help. I will solve this problem by using it as a multi-element-arpeggio, and do it a proper way.

I finished my experimental lines with this MS lane. Unfortunately I didn't find a way to explain this 180° shift. When activated (by Part SW), I can hear it, but it doesn't.
I allready wrote: the solution is to deactivate it also in "Lane 1" for all other parts except the one, who needs it. That must be the cause of this effect - together with my bad arp-timing. Now it functions correctly, no matter if I mess the timing or not. As long as such simple corrections are solving this problem, it should be okay for me.

P.S.: why was that even a problem?
Because I can correct my bad arp-timing while playing, without interrupting the song. But the shifting in scene 3 remained. That was the reason, why I talked about that.

Kind regards

[quotePost id=123121]The above comment ignores the fact that you can apply a Motion Sequence to ALL parts, but must do so through the SuperKnob and its relationships with Assignable Knobs of the Parts.

@Bubba - think of the Motion Sequencer as a custom LFO to fill in the gaps where the LFO's kind of suck in the MODX/Montage.

When you think of it like this, it makes a lot more sense, including its existence. It's needed because the LFO architecture in the chips they used is incredibly antiquated and limiting/limited.

Somewhere along the way they hobbled together the SuperKnob out of modulating a modulator, and then someone went "Ahah... a sellable gimmick" and made it big and throbbing.

Motion Sequencer twiddling Part Parameters via SuperKnob =
Motion Sequence twiddles SuperKnob > SuperKnob twiddles Assignable Knobs of the Parts which twiddle the values they're connected to in their respective Parts.

You can also twiddle Performance level values with the SuperKnob via Performance Level..

Motion Sequencer twiddling Performance Level Parameters via SuperKnob =Motion Sequencer twiddling Performance

Motion Sequence twiddles SuperKnob > SuperKnob twiddles Assignable Knobs of the Performance, which twiddle their associated values of the Performance.

[/quotePost]

Okay ... obviously a different "Andrew" ... obviously 😉
Nice to meet you *handshake

What I am thinking (not much) and knowing (even less), you can read in another thread *lol

So far, I was allways able to apply all features. Part-knob, common-knob, Superknob ... no problem for me 😉 I'm using this in nearly all Songs, because I extensively use my FC. My hands are too precious to waste them gripping knobs *lol

I do my homework (reading, viewing, conversation) as far as I can. I don't learn it by heart; but I come along.
So with the Motion Sequencer. It's an easy to understand feature and I don't have the slightest problems in using it. But if I don't have a reason to use it ... So it happens, that I rarely use it.
Usually I only post here, if I have a serious problem, which I cannot put together with the things I read/viewed/talked. E.g. I have one MS lane, where my parameters in "synch" & "key on reset" are different than they should be. Nevertheless I discussed this with Moessieurs ... what didn't really explain it completely ... but it functions! And that's my main goal!
Another strange problem with an MS lane I am discussing here lately. The problem is also solved. Not theoretically proved/explained ... but solved.

"LFO" is perhaps the next feature I will inspect. I use it already, but only for some gimmicks. I cannot inspect everything the same time. I'm using this machine only for over one year and have other things to do in my life too 😉 So I don't know, if it sucks.
I don't use this machine to become the greates theorist on earth. I am a player. And this machine is only a tool. I don't plan to study its electronic circuits. I want to cover this and that feature of this and that song ... what will I have to use & adjust(?) ... and then PLAY, PLAY, PLAY. That's my interest. AND ... not with DAW playback. I want to do everything with only the MODX.
If it doesn't ... e.g. the sequencer at the moment ... I use the DAW to craft (arpeggios).

I only post, if I have an issue, where papers and videos cannot explain it. Rarely 😉 And then I hope to find someone, who apllies this day by day and tells me, what adjustments I messed. Links to papers I read are not helpful 😉 And claiming that I didn't read them is pretty daring. Allthough it is not rarely, that I don't understand the english of some persons perfectly. This is not my native language.

"Weak points" inside the MODX ... yes. There are some; not to say many. But I couldn't find an open ear. That's the main "weak point" *lol
ONE exception: the fault, that the sequencer records the Superknob-Position it got from the first sequence ... also in following records (same performance).... no matter if you change the position there. I worked out a solution ... had to dive into theory. And it was Moessieurs, who thanked me for my hint on the solution.

That one effect ends in a sound-collaps, if "options" changed ... how I can provoque the MODX to stall/freeze by simply "browsing" ... a.s.o.. Not of interest 😉
Ohh ... did I mention, that sometimes the tempo is not consistent? *lol

that the sequencer records the Superknob-Position it got from the first sequence ... also in following records (same performance).... no matter if you change the position there.

There is a bug in the way the super knob position is set when the knob position is also stored in a SCENE using the scene memory switch. The bug is particularly apparent when pattern scenes are used since each pattern will reset the super knob value to the value stored in that scene.

This thread has some background:
https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/when-using-the-sequencer-superknob-scene-settings-are-bypassed

The value actually stored and used by the pattern sequencer is actually whatever value the super knob actually has when you press the ‘Play / Rec’ button.

That value is NOT necessarily the performance scene value that was set and saved into the scene using the Shift –> Scene Button.

So the pattern sequence itself has a super knob value stored in its header and that value is restored whenever the pattern resets.

Then each scene can have a value stored which will reset whenever that scene is selected.

The workaround solutions the tech team provided were to:

1. set the Super Knob where you want it BEFORE you press play/rec to record a pattern section
2. overdub the Super Knob movement after the fact

In any event if a scene has the super knob value saved using the MEMORY switch then whenever that scene is selected the super knob position will JUMP to that value.

And then if the pattern resets the super knob position will JUMP to the value stored in the sequence header EVEN IF the scene has NOT changed. Then it will jump to the value stored in the scene itself.

The above may be what you have experienced.

Yes ... those omniscient theorists...

Tell this to people, who filled all 8 scenes with patterns ... and now realize, what happened. Tell them to start anew.

Don't adress me ("you") after you insulted me multiple times! I already told you, what I had to tell. For the rest in Germany we say: "I ate you." ... means I am done with you.
Because you are the world champion in "learning by heart" ... REMEMBER MY NAME!!! ... and be happy that we will never meet.