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Yamaha AN-X

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Jason
Posts: 7919
Illustrious Member
 

... reface stuff was directed towards other chatter available elsewhere. I agree that the pattern here pulls more for an engine like the FM-X trademark.

Montage started shipping May of 2016.

FM-X was filed on July 19, 2016 and granted October 4, 2016 through the same attorney.

AN-X was filed on June 9th 2022.

Since FM-X was registered after the product release, one can't infer that the projected trademark grant date (of Aug-Sep-ish) would mean anything.

 
Posted : 23/06/2022 10:00 pm
Posts: 1717
Member Admin
 

Yamaha's probably thinking they can compete with the Modal Argon and Cobalt with a new AN1X.

 
Posted : 23/06/2022 11:00 pm
 Paul
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

[quotePost id=117565]
AN-X on montage is a doubtful long-shot:
https://sandsoftwaresound.net/musing-about-montage-va/
[/quotePost]

Yeah, I wrote that way back when. Things have changed. We saw the Montage V3.0 update with VCM Mini Filter, VCM Mini Booster and Wave Folder. Plus, the YC series came along with modeled (VCM) drawbars. So, my thinking has changed, too:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/guess-again-an-x-tm/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/namm-2022-your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine/

Hardware product flow/delivery seems slow due to the pandemic and likely the AKM factory fire. AKM is mum, but analysts don't think AKM has recovered as yet.

Soooooo, if you can't make money with hardware, why not sell an AN-X upgrade for the Montage (and possibly MODX) platform? Many people want an VA update, which to me, is the sound of ca-ching. I would pay for a YC upgrade, too.

Just sayin' -- pj

 
Posted : 24/06/2022 5:37 pm
Michel
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

[quotePost id=117588]Yeah, I wrote that way back when. Things have changed. We saw the Montage V3.0 update with VCM Mini Filter, VCM Mini Booster and Wave Folder. Plus, the YC series came along with modeled (VCM) drawbars. So, my thinking has changed, too:
[/quotePost]

You wrote: " It’s how the YC series implements its Virtual Circuitry Modeling (VCM) organ engine" - what made you suspect it was something more along the lines of an SWP70?

Asking because I still haven't seen a teardown of what's under the heatsink can on the YC.

Chip shortages have definitely curtailed hardware releases... I want to believe - and would be willing to pay.

 
Posted : 24/06/2022 6:08 pm
Posts: 0
New Member
 

[quotePost id=117589]Chip shortages have definitely curtailed hardware releases... I want to believe - and would be willing to pay.[/quotePost]

Total no-brainer for me, I would absolutely pay for something like an AN-X upgrade for the Montage. πŸ˜€

 
Posted : 24/06/2022 7:59 pm
Posts: 1717
Member Admin
 

Weren't there some shortages even for MODX/Montage production, too?

 
Posted : 25/06/2022 3:12 am
Posts: 1717
Member Admin
 

[quotePost id=117607]

Weren't there some shortages even for MODX/Montage production, too?

Yes - but mostly in the documentation area. I think they ran out of paper and couldn't get any due to the shipping problems. I haven't heard when that particular shortage will get resolved, if ever.
[/quotePost]

For the love of joy, more of THIS Bill, PLEASE!!!

Wonderful!

Lol'd. THANK YOU!!!

 
Posted : 25/06/2022 3:46 am
Jason
Posts: 7919
Illustrious Member
 

Other keyboard filings (patent). This is piano focused apparently but could have other applications. The read doesn't seem to be very novel to me. It seems to describe what's already done in the industry for things like sympathetic resonance. Maybe the twist here is how pan and reverb are manipulated in order to change the sense of "space" as you play at different intensities.

https://uspto.report/patent/app/20220199057

Not all patents go into products - so this doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of relation to the recent trademark filings. However, I throw it on the pile for speculation.

https://uspto.report/TM/97456583

"Vocalo Changer" seems like software to create vocals which seems like it could be a marketing response to Casio's vocal keyboard released recently.

 
Posted : 27/06/2022 5:31 pm
 Paul
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

[quotePost id=117659]Other keyboard filings (patent). This is piano focused apparently but could have other applications. The read doesn't seem to be very novel to me. It seems to describe what's already done in the industry for things like sympathetic resonance. Maybe the twist here is how pan and reverb are manipulated in order to change the sense of "space" as you play at different intensities.

https://uspto.report/patent/app/20220199057

Not all patents go into products - so this doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of relation to the recent trademark filings. However, I throw it on the pile for speculation.

https://uspto.report/TM/97456583

"Vocalo Changer" seems like software to create vocals which seems like it could be a marketing response to Casio's vocal keyboard released recently.
[/quotePost]

Hi Jason --

Yep, Yamaha has quite a sizeable patent portfolio -- wish I saw some of it in product. Paraphrasing a quip that applied to one of my former employers, "If only Yamaha knew what it knows." πŸ˜€

As to "Vocalo Changer," that might complement Vocaloid. The application describes the scope of the trademark as "International Class 009: downloadable computer software for generating, recording, effecting, and reproducing sound; downloadable computer software for effecting sound; downloadable computer software for music production; downloadable computer software that enable users to synthesize singing voice; downloadable music files; audio compact discs featuring music."

Sounds like software, not a new musical instrument feature.

All the best -- pj

P.S. I have a Casio CT-S1000V and after a few initial experiments with voice synthesis, I haven't used it.

 
Posted : 27/06/2022 7:32 pm
Darryl
Posts: 784
Prominent Member
 

[quotePost id=117659]Other keyboard filings (patent). This is piano focused apparently but could have other applications. The read doesn't seem to be very novel to me. It seems to describe what's already done in the industry for things like sympathetic resonance. Maybe the twist here is how pan and reverb are manipulated in order to change the sense of "space" as you play at different intensities.

https://uspto.report/patent/app/20220199057

Not all patents go into products - so this doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of relation to the recent trademark filings. However, I throw it on the pile for speculation.
[/quotePost]

Could this be a new enhanced virtual modeling based sympathetic resonance, whereby if you hold a note down and hit other notes, you hear the resonance from that note and others around it like with a real acoustic piano, as well as key off notes and other noises when such as when removing your foot from the sustain pedal? And if so, maybe they enhanced it to be more realistic sounding than the current Resonance effect used for pianos?

If this is the case and they add it to the Montage/MODX, I would be interested to see if they submit a similar patent for modeling based organ tone wheel for the Montage/MODX? (although they may already have this patent as per the YC synths!?)

 
Posted : 27/06/2022 7:37 pm
 Paul
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

[quotePost id=117589][quotePost id=117588]Yeah, I wrote that way back when. Things have changed. We saw the Montage V3.0 update with VCM Mini Filter, VCM Mini Booster and Wave Folder. Plus, the YC series came along with modeled (VCM) drawbars. So, my thinking has changed, too:
[/quotePost]

You wrote: " It’s how the YC series implements its Virtual Circuitry Modeling (VCM) organ engine" - what made you suspect it was something more along the lines of an SWP70?

Asking because I still haven't seen a teardown of what's under the heatsink can on the YC.

Chip shortages have definitely curtailed hardware releases... I want to believe - and would be willing to pay.

[/quotePost]

Hi Michel --

Sorry to be slow to reply. I've been away...

... and busy. I keep meaning to post about YC internals. Short answer: SWX for host processor, SWP70 for tone generator. It's always difficult (if not impossible) to discern the assignment of duties to processor. The SWX has tone generation channels, but are they used for TG? Yamaha's not saying. πŸ˜‰

All the best -- pj

 
Posted : 27/06/2022 7:40 pm
Dragos
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

[quotePost id=117659]Not all patents go into products[/quotePost]
I'd really like this trademark to become a real product (sequencer/sampler):
https://uspto.report/TM/90266078

 
Posted : 27/06/2022 8:04 pm
Darryl
Posts: 784
Prominent Member
 

[quotePost id=117518]A new one is coming. Yamaha has registered a new trademark AN-X

https://uspto.report/TM/97450018

A new synthesis engine for MONTAGE or a new synthesizer?[/quotePost]

My thoughts on this thread have drastically changed since the last time we were discussing it.
My confidence level in speculating the AN-X as being a new engine on the MONTAGE or a new synthesizer is now YES to both. I think it will be added to the MONTAGE in OS Update 4.0 and it will be added to the new hardware synthesizer MODX+

I also think some of the other recent trademarks from late June https://uspto.report/patent/app/20220199057 are more likely now to be added to the Montage, MODX and MODX+ such as the one that is related to Pianos (although how much new features will be added to the MODX going forward is unknown..!?). My hope is that they enhanced the piano resonance effect with a more VA based effect that emulates this better whereby you will be able to hold a key down a hit other keys an octave up/down and hear the resonance of the first key like on the Kronos and Fantom synths pianos. Who knows it may even have better key off notes that are more realistic as well as part of the same effect.
Additional speculation, I hope that this means that Yamaha are providing a C7 piano library for free with new C7 & CFX Performances that utilize the new resonance/key effect...if they double the User memory on the MODX+ then providing a new C7 library seems more plausible (or just more wishful thinking on my part :p )

 
Posted : 22/08/2022 12:21 pm
 Thor
Posts: 0
New Member
 

Guys, You do realize that the Montage already has in it all of the pieces needed to construct a Virtual Analog Synth? It has multiple oscillators with all of the standard analog wave forms, selectable shaped filters, Amplitude control and a mixer, all the envelopes and LFO's you need, Effects like reverb and a ring modulator, arpeggios, what else is there? It's fairly easy to recreate a virtual analog patch on the Montage now. Assign a few control sliders and off you go. Some of the factory patches already do this for you, just dig through them and look at how they're constructed.

 
Posted : 22/08/2022 2:39 pm
Posts: 803
Prominent Member
 

[quotePost id=117976]Guys, You do realize that the Montage already has in it all of the pieces needed to construct a Virtual Analog Synth? It has multiple oscillators with all of the standard analog wave forms, selectable shaped filters, Amplitude control and a mixer, all the envelopes and LFO's you need, Effects like reverb and a ring modulator, arpeggios, what else is there? It's fairly easy to recreate a virtual analog patch on the Montage now. Assign a few control sliders and off you go. Some of the factory patches already do this for you, just dig through them and look at how they're constructed. [/quotePost]Analog (or virtual analog) oscillators simply perform differently from sampled waveforms. You can notice it in things like pitch bend, portamento, pulse width modulation. The Motif ES has all the things you mention, but they still offered an optional VA card to truly duplicate analog-style sounds/behaviors, and that's still missing from the Montage (unlike the card that added FM synthesis to the Motif ES, which has indeed essentially been replicated in the Montage).

There are other differences besides non-sampled (and "free-running") waveforms as oscillators. there are also different behaviors of analog filters and envelopes. And in fact, Yamaha actually introduced an emulation of an analog filter in a Montage update (the VCM Mini Filter), but it's an effect, so for example it does not have the envelope control to apply to individual notes in a polyphonic sound.

There's interesting reading in the February 2021 edition of Yamaha's Music Production Guide, where there is extensive info on Easy Sounds' "Nostalgia" add on pack which is designed to add more authentically VA-style synth sonic (and operational) qualities to the Montage/MODX. Even if you're not interested in the pack, it's worth reading for the discussion on some of the difficulties of trying to get some kinds of true VA-style sonic behavior out of a sample-based synth engine.

 
Posted : 22/08/2022 3:05 pm
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