Yamaha has gotten way too fat and happy over the years and brought nothing really great to the table in many years.

Kind of the same old warmed over and over priced tech in a different wrapper. Why are we still paying a $500 upcharge for FM technology?

Their quality is good but I've just replaced all my Yamaha gear with one Fantom that does about 10 times what all my Yamaha gear did.

No need to have anything Yamaha for now.

Even though they claim to have the Ideascale where they "listen", they are non-responsive with any kind of information or heads up about updates, new gear etc.

Everything other than their stage boards are way too complicated to operate. I'd spend all my spare time trying to figure out how to do something instead of making music.

I didn't even have to open the Fantom manual and I was enjoying more than I could have ever imagined.

Yamaha ending the workstation was their downfall for me. Roland offered 15 expansion packs for free.

I've wasted hundreds of dollars on Yamaha expansions and usually they just dump that off on 3rd party folks. They are in decline for sure.

Roland has taken over the market and I've never owned a Roland until now. Did I mention it's simple to operate? Too many features to list also with no limitations.

The Fantom is just fun to play and to create with.

I think there is a discussion about YC61 here in this forum. What you expect would be a synth or a workstation, like Yamaha Montage, MODX or Genos. I expect from the YC 61 to be an organ, a piano, an e-piano and possibly some additional sounds for the stage. Because of the different feeling I am now working with the YC61 and the CP73. I'm satisfied with both, but expect an improvement in the Rotary area, similar to the Vent II. What other keyboards from other manufacturers can do better or more is certainly not of interest here in the forum.

I also own the YC61 and Montage and CP1 and sold my Genos so what's relative here on this forum is that Yamaha is in decline verses Roland who is giving worlds of free content and limitless music making abilities without frustration. I did mention that the Yamaha stage boards are not complex because they are stage boards. The Fantom is everything you'll need so the point is why go have to buy 3 Yamaha boards to do what one Fantom does way better? I'm selling my Montage but keeping the YC until the next update which appears to never be coming. I'm just tired of Yamaha and paying premium prices but getting the same old thing in a different package or that has way too many limitations or is too complex to operate. They should go buy a Fantom and learn how it works and then make something better but I'm betting they can't and still make it affordable and without limitations. I think that they are so smart that they can't think like a regular musician wanting to simply play music without any limitations. Engineering must understand simplicity and how to achieve it.

As mentioned before, the pessimism on YC's update schedule may be misplaced since it seems to be generally tracking what the CP has done - and the CP has been touted as a product with an "acceptable" (paraphrasing) release schedule.

Scheduling aside, if Yamaha has a busted rotary speaker (the forte of the YC) then they should have fixed that long ago. Many players don't use the YC or buy it because of this flaw.

Yes, unfortunately rotary speaker has not been a strong suit. Parts of Yamaha are self-aware of this. The benefit of an organ product like this is that the importance of getting this right is elevated. Hopefully this will translate to an improvement. We'll see.

Still nothing and we're into December. I can't even sell my mint YC because nobody wants it.

I heard from a friend that used to be a Yamaha rep. that some long standing folks have left.

Yamaha has long taken advantage of us loyal followers & I'm leaving them as well.

I sold my Montage last week and which took a long while as well.

They are overpriced and under supported. Their biggest market are the portable toy pianos we see all over the place.

Unless it's a stage board it's way too complex to learn and to use on a practical level.

They never bring every technology of old together under one hood and it's always way underpowered or extremely limited.

Their platform can't accomodate what needs to be done and then they can't make the workflow easy for musicians.

When they add the FM that's always a $500 upcharge but why?

Roland offers so much free content while Yamaha makes us pay for everything if they even support expansions at all.

Roland has it right and I'm not even a Roland fan. How long have we waited for the rotary speaker to get fixed?

Yamaha simply doesn't care and making that Ideascale site is simply a distraction to give us the feeling they care They don't respond to that, only the CEO.

Roland engineers and developers went to the Yamaha forum and gathered all of Yamaha's customer complaints, listened to them and built the Fantom.

Brilliant strategy to care about customers and to respond to them. Will Yamaha ever change? They swore "Never Touch Screen!" which happened but look how long it took.

I'm not waiting around on Yamaha any more.

I can't even sell my mint YC because nobody wants it.

If you're serious about selling, email me: anotherscott at hotmail

It's on Reverb under HornzNgear but it's brand new. I got bored with it after the first week and Yamaha refuses to update the OS. Still won't matter that much. I bought a refurb Fantom for almost the same price as their defective YC 61 organ. It's a million times better. Don't waste your money on the YC.

It's on Reverb under HornzNgear but it's brand new. I got bored with it after the first week and Yamaha refuses to update the OS. Still won't matter that much. I bought a refurb Fantom for almost the same price as their defective YC 61 organ. It's a million times better. Don't waste your money on the YC.

It's been shipping for about 6 months, that's too soon to say they "refuse" to update the OS. Fantom does look like a great board, though! Not as good as an organ, over twice the weight and over a grand pricier, but very cool. I'd say it's more a Montage competitor than a YC competitor. Roland's closet thing to the YC is the VR-09B, which is also a nice board, light and well priced, decent organ... but the YC seems to be better sounding (at least in its organ/acoustic sounds), better feeling, more fully featured and versatile.

Fantom is loaded with hundreds of organs. The YC only does 3 & very limited in other voices. Those are the same ole Yamaha voices repackaged. I paid around $1,900 for the YC & $2,200 for the Fantom. Roland gave us 15 expansion packs for zero dollars. Yamaha nickels and dimes everything or they only give you one piano or they don't support the product at all. I've grown very tired of Yamaha. Selling all Yamaha gear and I've had most everything since the DX100 as a kid. Change is good.

Oh and Fantom is more like 10 montages in one. Limitless relatively speaking, fun, simple to use and does everything Montage can't do.

Fantom is loaded with hundreds of organs. The YC only does 3

Fantom has what looks like fewer than 100 from a quick glance at their patch list, but more importantly, it has no actual organ engine (though I expect that they will be adding one). The organ sounds are sample based, so you can't manipulate the drawbars, for example. Basically, all those Fantom organ sounds, and tons more, can be created out of the few on the YC, just by manipulating the drawbars. But, as long as you're happy, enjoy!

Don't forget the 15 expansions packs which I have loaded. Many with over a hundred or two per pack. I'd have to check how many are organs.

Isn't the "organ engine" just a simulation except for the FM ones? I don't think YC comes close to the cathedral & pipes and many others on the Fantom.

Some might be sample based but I thought many are from their modeling technology. They claim there are no sample switching and other issues traditional sampling presents.

Go listen to one. You'll be amazed but more amazing are 16 voices (full performances) at once. None of the junk from Montage were you load a performance that occupies 4 parts of the 8.

Everything on Fantom is a one to one relationship. It's powerful.

Isn't the "organ engine" just a simulation except for the FM ones?

On the YC, the "H" (tonewheel emulation) organs are modeled. The "F" (simulating transitor organs) are FM. (The rest of the sounds are either sampled or FM.)

I don't think YC comes close to the cathedral & pipes and many others on the Fantom.

That could be. I was talking about the H/F (essentially Hammond, Vox, Farfisa) organs, not the pipes.

The organs on the Fantom are sample-based. Roland does a lot of modeling on the Fantom, but so far, not on the organs. If you're primarily looking to emulate Hammond organs, even the VR-09B/VR-730 is better than the Fantom (as is the YC61). But if other things are more important to you, both these companies make boards that are stronger than these in other areas.

I played around with the YC last night. What is does sounds great but it's all still very old technology. Very old like FM & sampling but I guess modeling is the latest thing.

Very old technology repacked over and over again and still costing a premium price. It's not like it's also a workstation too. The screen is super ancient technology.

Knobs & switches & sliders in a stage board interface, all still very old technology. Nice sounds but very limited in quantity. Price point is $2K.

It's really nifty to be fair and probably better than anything in its class but I still can't see the $2K as reasonable for ancient technology even if repacked in a cool outfit.

The 50% rule typically applies to everything in production. Did it cost the $1,000 per unit? I really doubt it. I'd guess it costs them $700 per unit and list should be more like $1,400.

BUTTTTT whenever Yamaha adds that ancient FM/DX engine they automatically add $500 to the price. This is really old technology (not like it's FS1R inside) and you can't even program it yet if ever.

The FM/DX has always been way to difficult for anyone to understand or mess around with. The learn and Smart Morph on the Montage was cool but it's not on the YC.

The Fantom you can "smart morph" any 4 sounds you want which is way more useful than on Montage, plus you can do it inside a 16 part arrangement by pressing a button on the dash.

Yamaha has always had quality & great sounds but expensive technology & difficult architecture and they are rarely simple & practical. They've never understood that the musician is not also an engineer nor wants to be.

I am an engineer by trade and most of their stuff I'm not smart enough to use it. I used the Fantom without opening the manual.

I understand the the CP series and YC are for making music with little operational knowledge but I like both IF it's simple to follow and follows a practical common sense workflow and interface. I'm 51 so the older I get the less time I want to spend learning some difficult set of instructions.

The older of us in general have more money to spend (not this year because 2020 sucks) but we're looking for simplicity and everyone wants value, rich or poor.

They started that Ideascale to give us a warm fuzzy feeling like they care but it's been 6 months with a busted rotary speaker. That's poor performance form any company.