We appreciate feedback, hope you do as well.

You’ve discovered the Velocity response for the synth as a whole, but have failed to discover (or mention) the ability to scale the velocity of each Oscillator within the MODX/MONTAGE synth engine. (Or is this news?) There is also control over Velocity of the Part (allowing offsetting of the individual programming within each Oscillator)

Velocity scaling has been apart of every major Yamaha synth engine that has come out while I’ve been with the company and extends all the way back to the DX7 with its -/+Linear and -/+Exponential scaling curves. We can help you learn about them.

It’s a great idea, don’t get me wrong... being able to adjust the output level of a sound making component with velocity and scale that response across the keyboard, at least we think is... Please take the time, though, to take a deeper look at your synthesizer, you may find that what you are looking for is already available.

In the AWM2 engine: Velocity can be applied to the Oscillator (pitch), to the Filter (timbre) and to the Amplitude (loudness), and can be scaled on a per Oscillator basis (Element),
In the FM-X engine: each Operator can be set to respond as you desire to velocity and it’s output index can scaled across the keyboard.

_This means you can have Velocity change the Pitch EG, So the harder you strike a key the more pitch change there is, and you can scale that response across the keys so that low notes move farther than high notes, or vice versa.
_This means you can have the Filter Cutoff Frequency change, so the harder you strike a key the movement there is, and you can scale the response across the keys so that the low notes respond differently than high notes.
_ This means you can have the sound get louder the harder you strike a key, and you can scale the response to velocity across the keys so that you get the response you desire across the keyboard.

You were looking for a “global” control when what the solution requires is a per Oscillator parameter... this allows for much finer detail when designing sounds. The velocity response and amplitude scaling across the keyboard will need to be different for the Oscillator reproducing an acoustic piano string sound, versus an Oscillator reproducing mechanical noise, for example.

Each Oscillator can be set as to Sensitivity and that Sensitivity can be varied across the key range (called “scaling” ...)

We think this engine is extremely good at this very thing!

Conclusion:
Although I don’t know what “BHE Velocity Simulate” is exactly or what it means. A keyboard with Yamaha’s Balanced Hammer Effect action (P300) sends velocities 1-127, no Aftertouch — are you attempting to imitate the feel of this Yamaha keyboard action, by adjusting the velocity curve?
Ion the synthesizers this is an extremely programmable thing (velocity and scaling) unlike products that feature BHE action where you must accept the factory settings in this regard. .

But this time look to the Amplitude settings within each Oscillator— we think you will discover what you seek! Hope that helps.

@Bad Mister Thanks for your response. And yes as you said "being able to adjust the output level of a sound making component with velocity and scale that response across the keyboard" is what I am referring to, with more emphasis on the velocity and scale, then Output Level. Of course I can already scale Output levels with the Amplitude Scaling per Element & via the -/+Linear and -/+Exponential scaling curves for FM-X PARTs.

I am aware of all the functionality you've mentioned above, some being velocity adjustments for Volume/Amplitude, some for Velocity (same across the range for that particular Oscillator, Element or PART). The only thing the Montage & MODX can't do is adjust velocity and scale that response across the keyboard.

I almost should rename that IdeaScale idea because the 'BHE Velocity Simulate' is no longer a true representation of what I am asking for now. That idea was posted after I demoed the MODX8 & many months before I purchased the Montage8. I don't need to be concerned about the GHS keybed and having to try and find a way to scale velocities across the keyboard. That part of the idea would only help MODX8 owners when playing pianos.
The reason I am posting this idea here (under Montage) is to emphasize the part of that idea that involves Scaling Velocity across the keybaord (same as how we can already Scale Amplitude/Volume) across the keyboard per Element). Whether Yamaha could most easily add this functionality per PART or per Element, would not matter as much as just having this functionality in order to be able to utilize shaping of Velocity for new Sound Designs in a way that is currently not possible, despite the vast amounts of Velocity & Amplitude adjustments are are already available as you pointed out above. Of course per Element would provide the most versatility.

So I hope the Yamaha team will consider this idea for a future enhancement of both the Montage and MODX synths. But just ignore the BHE Velocity Simulate part as being the main point, keeping that as a smaller secondary BONUS for MODX8 users. Thanks!

The only thing the Montage & MODX can't do is adjust velocity and scale that response across the keyboard.

Both the MONTAGE and MODX can most definitely adjust and scale velocity response across the keyboard!

Velocity is the control source in this case... The principal destinations are
_ Amplitude (amplitude = output level = volume = how loud)* *all the same thing here;
_ Pitch applied to shape pitch change via the Pitch Envelope;
_ Filter applied to shape the timbre change by controlling response to both Cutoff Frequency and Resonance amount.

Filter and Amplitude response can be scaled, in detail, using four programmable Key Break Points. The Break Point system allows you set four specific points across the keyboard (C-2 thru G8) so that it is not just a linear response, bottom to top.
I should mention that within FM, amplitude can affect output level when applied to a Carrier and will affect timbre when applied to a Modulator. And as you know, each Operator can be scaled as to how it responds across the key range.

just having this functionality in order to be able to utilize shaping of Velocity for new Sound Designs in a way that is currently not possible, despite the vast amounts of Velocity & Amplitude adjustments are are already available as you pointed out above. Of course per Element would provide the most versatility.

What is it exactly that you think is “not possible”. I just want to be sure that you are not overlooking what is already deeply programmable. I realize there are additional directions that Velocity can be applied but they have not entered the discussion here. And as I explained, you have both individual oscillator (Element/Operator) control and overall Part control.

On the AWM2 side each Element has its own Filter and Pitch EG
On the FM-X side each Algorithm (set of 8 Operators) share a Filter and Pitch EG

Maybe I’m just not clear on what you think is missing here... I’m not as smart as the engineers but I’m pretty clever when it comes to these synth’s!

But just ignore the BHE Velocity Simulate part as being the main point, keeping that as a smaller secondary BONUS for MODX8 users. Thanks!

The “BHE Velocity Simulate” thing is perhaps what is throwing me off in understanding what you are saying... and it will likely confuse engineers and weaken whatever other point you are trying to make.

The MONTAGE 8 has the Balanced Hammer Effect Keyboard (Initial Touch/Aftertouch)
The MODX 8 has the GHS Keyboard (Initial Touch) Graded Hammer Standard action

And while psychoacoustic adjustments could be made at the factory... I think that offering the GH action has been very successful and meets the requirements of a large segment of the market. No single action will please everyone (that is a fact) - and the adjustments to how an action feels/responds on the psychoacoustic level are beyond the scope of the system (and the majority of users for that matter).

(Note: the AWM2 and FM-X engines found in the current synths represents a culmination of where Yamaha has developed a programmable engine - thanks a key, programmability. There are certainly deeper adjustments that control how the keyboard action and the product tone engine behave that are not available to the user, and rightfully so, IMHO).

The MONTAGE, at the top-of-the-line, has the Balanced Hammer with Aftertouch. We do not have a Graded Hammer with Aftertouch... rather than crippling the cost-down model (MODX) by severely limiting the sound engine, it was decided that the area to *save* cost would be the body (keybed, case, outputs, etc) ...the MOX (2011)was the first Yamaha synth with the Graded Hammer action... response was spectacular in the market. The original MO8 (2005) had a Balanced Hammer Effect (initial touch), only.

The differences between the Balanced and Graded is - one has the same key weight across all keys, and the other has several different key weights as you move across the keys. GH was developed for Yamaha electronic pianos (the ‘grading’ is to mimic the feel of an acoustic piano weighting - Balanced action has one of those weights across all keys ...putting GH on a synth was something we watched very closely... since the price down model was not going to have AT, needless to say it was a very successful experiment. The number of piano players looking for a moderately priced 88-key synth is sizable (since it wasn’t going to have AT, an added benefit was this GH action would save overall weight, as well.

Different strokes for different folks...
If you’re entire goal is to make a GH feel like a BH action, I’m going to venture a guess that that level of programming is beyond the scope of user programmability (and would fall into that ‘psychoacoustic’ realm of response—but the discussion here is to make sure you can appreciate just how much you can vary the sonic response currently). We think it is an important difference, one that when we train retailers, we spend time with... TOUCH is important, it is also, to a large degree, a personal preference. Viva la difference in the actions.

Play the “Winds & Strings” Performance... feel how it is purposefully programmed to be the Woodwinds at low velocities and the Strings are restricted to when you play with more energy (this is works for a particular approach to performing.... as an exercise, try reversing that... setup so that the strings respond at low velocities and the winds come in at higher more energetic passages. Once you realize this flexibility exist (vertically/using velocity) then dig in and see how they tailor the response of the winds (Bassoon, Oboe, Flute) to respond horizontally across the key ranges...

Extra Credit
We highly recommend that you go through some of the “MONTAGifying Motif XF” series articles, as they dig way-deep into the synth architecture - revealing some of the keen programming behind some of the Performances... pay attention particularly to those that dig into scaling across the keys to create a specific response.

Please see (and actually execute) the experiments in the “MONTAGifying Motif XF” article: MONTAGifying “Winds & Strings”... as this dives into the Velocity, the Scaling at both the individual Element level of the architecture and at the Part level of programming. Although it deals with Amplitude in this example... exactly the same functions can be made for Filter activity.

In building the ‘Woodwinds’, the programmer choose Bassoon, Oboe, Clarinet and Flute Parts, and by using the scaling, they create the ensemble that you hear when you play at low velocity. Isolate each Part in turn, 2, 3 then 4 while viewing the Scale BreakPoints

Dig into the article: MONTAGifying “Creepin’ Worm” to experiment with Filter Scaling.

After running through these Scuba Diving tutorials, please let us know what you find that is missing (so I can better understand what you are trying to say). We understand you’re talking about your initial encounter with one if these keyboards. Anyway, we’re here to help if you want to understand how these settings work.

Let us know how you make out with the tutorials.

Velocity is the control source in this case... The principal destinations are
_ Amplitude (amplitude = output level = volume = how loud)* *all the same thing here;
_ Pitch applied to shape pitch change via the Pitch Envelope;
_ Filter applied to shape the timbre change by controlling response to both Cutoff Frequency and Resonance amount.

Filter and Amplitude response can be scaled, in detail, using four programmable Key Break Points.

What is it exactly that you think is “not possible”. I just want to be sure that you are not overlooking what is already deeply programmable.

On the AWM2 side each Element has its own Filter and Pitch EG
On the FM-X side each Algorithm (set of 8 Operators) share a Filter and Pitch EG

Maybe I’m just not clear on what you think is missing here... I’m not as smart as the engineers but I’m pretty clever when it comes to these synth’s!

The “BHE Velocity Simulate” thing is perhaps what is throwing me off in understanding what you are saying... and it will likely confuse engineers and weaken whatever other point you are trying to make.

The MONTAGE 8 has the Balanced Hammer Effect Keyboard (Initial Touch/Aftertouch)
The MODX 8 has the GHS Keyboard (Initial Touch) Graded Hammer Standard action

Extra Credit
We highly recommend that you go through some of the “MONTAGifying Motif XF” series articles, as they dig way-deep into the synth architecture - revealing some of the keen programming behind some of the Performances... pay attention particularly to those that dig into scaling across the keys to create a specific response.

Please see (and actually execute) the experiments in the “MONTAGifying Motif XF” article: MONTAGifying “Winds & Strings”... as this dives into the Velocity, the Scaling at both the individual Element level of the architecture and at the Part level of programming. Although it deals with Amplitude in this example... exactly the same functions can be made for Filter activity.

Dig into the article: MONTAGifying “Creepin’ Worm” to experiment with Filter Scaling.

After running through these Scuba Diving tutorials, please let us know what you find that is missing (so I can better understand what you are trying to say). We understand you’re talking about your initial encounter with one if these keyboards. Anyway, we’re here to help if you want to understand how these settings work.

Let us know how you make out with the tutorials.

I'll definitely check out those tutorials & let you know how they go. Scaling via Filter will be very useful in designing certain sounds.

I think my idea name is misleading and unclear, so I am renaming it to:

"4 Key Break Point Velocity Depth Scaling"

Just for clarity on my Velocity Scaling idea, I am only referring to "AWM2", not FM-X with regard to my request.
And I think you are correct in that I am not explaining what my idea is as clearly as I could be.

So I am hoping this explains it clearly:
**What I am requesting in my idea is adding a 3rd '4 Key Break Point' scaling functionality for "Velocity Depth Scaling"

There are currently two '4 Key Break Point Scaling' options at an Element Level of AWM2 PARTs, one under 'Amplitude' & the other under 'Filter'.
My ask is to add a 3rd 4 Key Break Point Scale for Velocity "Depth", the same as under Amplitude & Filtering ... that is what I am suggesting. It wouldn't necessarily have to be at the Element level like Amplitude & Filter 4 Key Break Point Scaling is, and might be just as useful if implemented at the PART level instead, but having "4 Key Break Point Velocity Depth Scaling" as a 3rd option would provide additional sound design possibilities in combination to the Amplitude & Filter Scaling. So that if implemented, it would look something like this when you describe the different options to people (I left out Pitch in this explanation below since it doesn't have a 4 Key Break Point Scaling):
_ Amplitude (amplitude = output level = volume = how loud)* *all the same thing here;
_ Filter applied to shape the timbre change by controlling response to both Cutoff Frequency and Resonance amount.
_ Depth applied to shape the depth of how waveform velocities are triggered, thereby changing how the Velocity Limits are triggered between 1-127

When we edit the Common > Part Settings under General, there is 'Velocity Offset' and 'Velocity Depth'. The 'Depth' setting on the lower right corner allows us to change the Velocity Depth evenly across the keyboard for a PART. However with my idea, having a 'Velocity Depth' 4 Key Break Point Scale to be able to change the Depth shaping across the keyboard so that it is not even across the keyboard would be an awesome & useful new enhancement to the already existing Velocity principal destinations, such as Amplitude & Filter!

So my idea should be more properly named as:

"4 Key Break Point Velocity Depth Scaling"

.

@Bad Mister

For less confusion I have added a new YamahaIdeascale idea for this, hopefully making the idea much more clear in what I am requesting for a future enhancement to the Montage/MODX synths:

Velocity Scaling - 4 Key Break Point Velocity 'Depth' Scaling

https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Velocity-Scaling-4-Key-Break-Point-Velocity-Depth-Scaling/264515-45978

*(Everyone: Please 'Up Vote' this idea if you would like to see it implemented in a future OS update)

.

I realize now that a BHE Simulate setting/effect on both the MODX & Montage is not feasible since it would only benefit the MODX8 and not the MODX6/7 nor any of the Montage synths.

I understand that this is no longer what you're asking for... but I think something along these lines might still be useful (for the MODX8 user), and may well be feasible. I may be wrong here, but I'm going to assume that the velocity scaling for the Montage/MODX is the same across all models, e.g. that they did not create a new velocity mapping specific to the MODX8 that is different from any/all of the 5 other Montage/MODX models, despite the fact that that model has graded action and all the rest have balanced. (I suggest this in part because it would be consistent with your observation that "I eventually found the Global Velocity and it helped get the middle keys to the correct velocity, but the highest keys were then way too hot and the lowest keys were still not quite hitting at the right velocity.") The "fix" would be a new factory-supplied global velocity selection that is pre-programmed to adjust each gradation of the graded action differently, so as to adapt to the velocity mapping originally created for the action(s) that were not graded. Such an adjustment seems feasible feasible... there could be some global velocity-related menu option where you would select "MODX8" (or "Graded Response," whatever) which would enable that adjustment which would compound (work in addition to) any other adjustment you selected.

I had a Kurzweil that had something similar. The model was available with two different actions, and besides the usual global soft/hard/normal velocity options, there was an additional menu option where you could pick which action your keyboard had, and it would adjust accordingly. In that particular case, it adjusted all the black keys differently, because the alternate action had different black key resistance, but it would be the same idea of providing a "selective" offset to any other settings, based on the differing resisitance of different sets of keys within a particular action.

I realize now that a BHE Simulate setting/effect on both the MODX & Montage is not feasible since it would only benefit the MODX8 and not the MODX6/7 nor any of the Montage synths.

I understand that this is no longer what you're asking for... but I think something along these lines might still be useful (for the MODX8 user), and may well be feasible. I may be wrong here, but I'm going to assume that the velocity scaling for the Montage/MODX is the same across all models, e.g. that they did not create a new velocity mapping specific to the MODX8 that is different from any/all of the 5 other Montage/MODX models, despite the fact that that model has graded action and all the rest have balanced. (I suggest this in part because it would be consistent with your observation that "I eventually found the Global Velocity and it helped get the middle keys to the correct velocity, but the highest keys were then way too hot and the lowest keys were still not quite hitting at the right velocity.") The "fix" would be a new factory-supplied global velocity selection that is pre-programmed to adjust each gradation of the graded action differently, so as to adapt to the velocity mapping originally created for the action(s) that were not graded. Such an adjustment seems feasible feasible... there could be some global velocity-related menu option where you would select "MODX8" (or "Graded Response," whatever) which would enable that adjustment which would compound (work in addition to) any other adjustment you selected.

Hey @AnotherScott, I have created a new Ideascale idea and re-asked for the "Velocity Depth Scaling for 4 Key Break Points" because my original idea never went anywhere. Yes even my new version of the idea would benefit MODX8 owners with piano velocity triggering, but I am trying to re-make my point through the Velocity Depth Scaling only because Yamaha are not going to make an OS change like this just for 1 out of 6 different Synth models (between Montage & MODX), which is likely not even the most sold model.
So re-Phrasing and focusing on how "Velocity Depth Scaling for 4 Key Break Points" would benefit ALL models, makes it a more viable possibility for Yamaha to pursue for a future enhancement. MODX8 owner I would presume would be "Over the moon" to see this implemented, which would fix their Graded keybed issue with pianos, but it would also be a great enhancement for all the various synths and give new added capabilities for Sound Design!